Cervelo R5 - disc vs rim

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

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Ypuh
Posts: 375
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:20 pm
Location: The Netherlands

by Ypuh

1415chris wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:43 pm
On the NTN bearings subject, it is shame that the certain source based in UK almost doubled their price over a year or so. Asking £29 for one bearing is outrageus, paying this money madness.
I believe its temporary. All NTN bearings are sold out at the local bearing webshop I know.

Indeed it's strange to see all prices having gone up (also of the BB's itself) since Corona. In part due to success, but hopefully temporary as well. I'd probably still pay the price (not for the bearings of course) if I bought a new Cervelo. Relatively speaking it's not thát expensive, just that we're used to buying cheap BB's with shitty bearings for little money.
Cervelo S3 - 7.35kg

by Weenie


1415chris
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Location: Surrey UK

by 1415chris

Of course, anything in this price range compared to the value of our bikes sounds llike negligible amount. I doubt it is corona virus driven situation. These bearings can be sourced for less than the half of £29 price from reputable industry suppliers in Europe (in stock). Just for the reference, in Japan these bearings are for around £8.

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wheelsONfire
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Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

I just noted R3 is not available at Cervelo!?
Any new bike about to be released?
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

yellowbear1021
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:52 pm

by yellowbear1021

wheelsONfire wrote:I just noted R3 is not available at Cervelo!?
Any new bike about to be released?
It's weird they are referring to the R3 as the R-Series, but they still have dedicated pages for the R5 and R2. I'm thinking will the R5 be renamed/rebadged similar to Venge/Tarmac/Roubaix/Diverge? So it'll be S5/???/R-Series/Aspero? I have a feeling the C5 goes away.

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yellowbear1021
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:52 pm

by yellowbear1021

yellowbear1021 wrote:
wheelsONfire wrote:I just noted R3 is not available at Cervelo!?
Any new bike about to be released?
It's weird they are referring to the R3 as the R-Series, but they still have dedicated pages for the R5 and R2. I'm thinking will the R5 be renamed/rebadged similar to Venge/Tarmac/Roubaix/Diverge? So it'll be S5/???/R-Series/Aspero? I have a feeling the C5 goes away.

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If you go to https://cervelo.com/en_US/bikes/classic-road the R3 appears under the R-Series link.

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wheelsONfire
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Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

yellowbear1021 wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:16 pm
yellowbear1021 wrote:
wheelsONfire wrote:I just noted R3 is not available at Cervelo!?
Any new bike about to be released?
It's weird they are referring to the R3 as the R-Series, but they still have dedicated pages for the R5 and R2. I'm thinking will the R5 be renamed/rebadged similar to Venge/Tarmac/Roubaix/Diverge? So it'll be S5/???/R-Series/Aspero? I have a feeling the C5 goes away.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
If you go to https://cervelo.com/en_US/bikes/classic-road the R3 appears under the R-Series link.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Not for me....R5, R2 and R Series (which leads back basically)
EDIT: hm, a little weird but i can find R3
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

yellowbear1021
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:52 pm

by yellowbear1021

Anyone know what the Cervelo Caledonia is?Image

uraqt
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Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:53 am

by uraqt

It's the new Cervelo, there is a Cervelo 2021 thread here and two poeple said new bike next week....

C

tepextate
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:27 am

by tepextate

maxim809 wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:58 pm
1. What a bump.

2. RIP Calnago. :(

3. I tested a stock R5 disc w/ Di2, DT-Swiss wheels a couple months ago. Tires were cushy 80~90psi. Main test up a 5mi/8% climb followed by technical descent then a bunch of rollers.

The front end was way too stiff, in a bad way. Either the fork, the wheels, or combo of everything... either way I really wanted to love it because I see some great deals on R5 disc NOS frame sets in my size and on paper I have a great build in mind. However, I had the exact same experience as the earlier posts stating the disc version of Cervelo R5's feel dead and harsh compared to rim... and I could not imagine myself riding it to justify the project. I was more excited to build than ride it, which I know are premonitions of a future divorce.
Sorry to bump this thread, but I'm seeing the same deals now and am debating whether or not to bite the bullet and get a NOS 2019 R5 Disc (with a Dura-Ace Di2 groupo) at 40% off MSRP.

The feedback on the dead feel and uncomfortable stiffness of the Disc variant are giving me pause. However, I'm coming from the triathlon world and am not sure if I'm going to be nearly as sensitive to these issues, as I simply haven't ridden enough road bikes to know what's good vs. bad! For those of you who don't like the riding experience of the Disc variant, is that relative to other bikes in its retail price point, or just on an absolute basis?

Figure worst-case scenario, with a discount this high, I can rip off the Dura-Ace Di2 groupset, wheels, etc., and move it over to a new frame, right? Are there any parts on this bike that are incompatible with newer bikes? I know it comes with their RAT thru-axle system, but guessing that doesn't impact the ability to re-use any of the non-frame parts.

yellowbear1021
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Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:52 pm

by yellowbear1021

I think you should test ride other disc road bikes to compare if you get the same dead feel. Then at least you know other disc bikes feel the same. Other companies are providing similar discounts on NOS frames like Factor for example.

But yeah everything should be able to move to another frame. If you get a new frame it should come with thru-axles so shouldn't be an issue.

Let us know what you end up doing!!!

tepextate
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:27 am

by tepextate

yellowbear1021 wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:12 pm
I think you should test ride other disc road bikes to compare if you get the same dead feel. Then at least you know other disc bikes feel the same. Other companies are providing similar discounts on NOS frames like Factor for example.

But yeah everything should be able to move to another frame. If you get a new frame it should come with thru-axles so shouldn't be an issue.

Let us know what you end up doing!!!
Awesome - the intercompatability is good to know!

And thank you for the suggestion! I'm having a tough time finding a LBS that still has the 2019/2020 R5 Disc in stock for a test ride, so I don't think I'll have the ability to test it before making a purchase. I'm also not sure I'd be comfortable taking something out for a test ride when I'm planning on purchasing it from an online vendor. :)

Can you point me to a vendor offering similar discounts on other frames? The vendor I'm looking at (Excel) is based in the US, which gives me some extra comfort over buying a frame from someone like Bike24, where the lead time is quite longer / I'm assuming support is a bit less.

yellowbear1021
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:52 pm

by yellowbear1021

tepextate wrote:
yellowbear1021 wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:12 pm
I think you should test ride other disc road bikes to compare if you get the same dead feel. Then at least you know other disc bikes feel the same. Other companies are providing similar discounts on NOS frames like Factor for example.

But yeah everything should be able to move to another frame. If you get a new frame it should come with thru-axles so shouldn't be an issue.

Let us know what you end up doing!!!
Awesome - the intercompatability is good to know!

And thank you for the suggestion! I'm having a tough time finding a LBS that still has the 2019/2020 R5 Disc in stock for a test ride, so I don't think I'll have the ability to test it before making a purchase. I'm also not sure I'd be comfortable taking something out for a test ride when I'm planning on purchasing it from an online vendor. :)

Can you point me to a vendor offering similar discounts on other frames? The vendor I'm looking at (Excel) is based in the US, which gives me some extra comfort over buying a frame from someone like Bike24, where the lead time is quite longer / I'm assuming support is a bit less.
Excel is where I bought my nos 2019 R5 rim frame from. They even gave me an additional discount because it wasn't the all black frame, but was an LTD edition with some white accents. I had a really good experience with them.

I would look at the company sites of the frames you're interested in and then find dealers local to you for test rides. Most will be slashing prices on the outgoing model so don't be afraid to haggle. They want to sell it as much as you want to buy it at discount. Or if you find the R5 disc to test ride and like it then go with Excel. You can also try My Bike Shop as they carry Cervelo as well.

maxim809
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by maxim809

tepextate wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:58 am
Sorry to bump this thread, but I'm seeing the same deals now and am debating whether or not to bite the bullet and get a NOS 2019 R5 Disc (with a Dura-Ace Di2 groupo) at 40% off MSRP.
Haha no worries on the bump. I've been staring at that R5 disc LTD frame set over @ Excel Sports in the last available size for almost half a year now. I'm still being patient for a rim frame set to appear before me, and I know exactly how I would build it. But chances are slim given it's a limited edition. Vicarious living: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=161640

I see that matte-black R5 disc deal going for $6.5k.
tepextate wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:58 am
The feedback on the dead feel and uncomfortable stiffness of the Disc variant are giving me pause. However, I'm coming from the triathlon world and am not sure if I'm going to be nearly as sensitive to these issues, as I simply haven't ridden enough road bikes to know what's good vs. bad! For those of you who don't like the riding experience of the Disc variant, is that relative to other bikes in its retail price point, or just on an absolute basis?
I'll give a contrarian perspective that will downplay what I said last month.

Feel is subjective, so what I felt isn't going to match what you would feel. This personalized subjectivity would apply to any bike beyond just this R5.

Thus, my rim vs disc feel comparison should not be applied to your decision. Especially because you don't have a point of comparison yet. In your situation, other qualities will jump out far more prominently such as how quick and stable the handling of a road bike is in comparison to your tri bike. You would likely start by just enjoying that, long before nitpicking the nuances of feel.

If you are new to road, my recommendation is to get any road bike that will simply get you riding and spend the next several thousand miles calibrating your own experiences.
tepextate wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:58 am
For those of you who don't like the riding experience of the Disc variant, is that relative to other bikes in its retail price point, or just on an absolute basis?
Very difficult to answer objectively. We're talking about subjective ride-feel again.

Too many variables factor into feel: tires, tire PSI, fork stiffness, wheel build, seat post, contact points (bar tape / saddle / shoes), individual rider sensitivity, your mood, your biases and beliefs.

The human brain makes us feel what we want to believe. Full disclosure, I'm politically moderate on the rim vs disc scale with a bias towards rim. Maybe I'm looking for it.

When I tested the R5 rim vs disc setup at my LBS, each was taken on two hour loops that had several rollers and a 5mi/8% climb and descent built into the route. The disc harshness came out during the descent.

Straying into a tangent, but I've been talking to a lot of people and frame builders about this experience. What I've gathered is disc forks and its thicker thru-axle, by design must be made stiffer than its rim counterpart to handle the braking load from the disc caliper and rotor. I was either feeling that, or I was feeling what was in my head. Who knows.

I wish Imaking20 didn't delete all his SL6 tarmac rim build posts, because he also did the rim>disc>rim full-circle and mentioned the same lively feel when he arrived back to rim. Maybe we're just sensitive in the same way, or just have similar political preferences.

My theory is that the 25mm > 28mm tire width and larger rim width movement is partially to address stiff disc forks and stays. I didn't see a need to go beyond 25mm on road bikes until I started sinking my teeth into disc frame sets.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
tepextate wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:58 am
Figure worst-case scenario, with a discount this high, I can rip off the Dura-Ace Di2 groupset, wheels, etc., and move it over to a new frame, right? Are there any parts on this bike that are incompatible with newer bikes? I know it comes with their RAT thru-axle system, but guessing that doesn't impact the ability to re-use any of the non-frame parts.
Yes, a viable option. By the way the Di2 disc ergonomics of the shifter hoods are very close to the rim ergo and it's great. Don't worry about that thru-axle. Your next frame set will come with its own thru-axles that work for it, and if not you can purchase them separately. If you change your wheels there might be a difference between 6-bolt vs center lock rotors but it's not a big deal. Rotors are a replaceable part like hosing and cables which you normally change when you strip well-worn group sets.
Currently building a: Basso Diamante

tepextate
Posts: 216
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by tepextate

maxim809 wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:25 pm
...
Thank you. You've been more helpful than you realize and I appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge. All of your feedback is well-received, particularly the point about just needing to buy a bike and to start spending time biking in order to understand my preferences. I've been stuck in a state of significant decision paralysis, and the global shortage of bikes right now hasn't helped (although I'm super lucky to even be buying a bike right now!). I highly doubt I'm going to be able to tell the nuance between the rim vs. disc feel, so I went ahead and placed an order for the bike at Excel.

If you have a few more minutes, I'd love to get your thoughts on a few follow-up questions to what you said:

1) How did you get your LBS to take two bikes out for such long test rides? Is this a thing most LBSs do? The LBSs in my neck of the woods (NYC) make a fuss about test rides and the most they've let me try out a bike is around the block. With that said, I guess that's reasonable given it's NYC and there's not really anywhere reasonable to ride it. But it's certainly not long enough of a ride to get the kind of nuanced feel that you got!

2) Since you mentioned you know exactly how you would build a rim brake version of this bike up, do you mind if I ask what wheels you would put on it? I've read a lot of people trash the DT Swiss 1450 wheels that this bike comes with, although my understanding is that these are just 1400 wheels with their cheaper 350 hubs. How much does this impact the performance of the wheels? For what it's worth, I'm asking for my edification, not because I'm looking to swap these out anytime soon. Like the bike itself, I doubt I'd know the difference between good and bad wheels. Best wheels I've ridden are the Flos on my tri bike, which I've been very happy with.

tepextate
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:27 am

by tepextate

yellowbear1021 wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:30 pm
...
Thank you! I gave it some thought and just went ahead and bought the R5 Disc. COVID has made it weird to take out bikes for test rides right now. Figure there's enough positive feedback on this bike on WW that it's worth the gamble. And as I mentioned in my response to maxim, since this is my first road bike and I have literally no point of comparison, I'm hoping it's still going to blow me away. :D

by Weenie


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