Cervelo R5 - disc vs rim

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
jorryt
Posts: 113
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by jorryt

The good thing about the cycling industrie being so conservative is that you can buy parts for 'outdated' equipment. There are still many 8 speed cassettes on the market with roadbike gearing.

by Weenie


asiantrick
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by asiantrick

If you're lazy to maintain your bike, don't get disc brake. It was a pain in the ass for me with pad rubbing on my disc bike. Ended up sold it after only 6 months of usage. Took a big L !

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Calnago
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by Calnago

If I were buying a high end road race bike today, and I know which one it would be... it would be rim brake, and mechanical. It's simply what I prefer. I'm sure I've explained my reasoning many times elsewhere, and all of it still stands.
The argument that I really hate against discs is this: "But I've got all these rim brake bikes and wheels". While that may be a valid reason an individual doesn't want to switch, it is not a valid reason to automatically dismiss disc brakes as evil. If something is truly better, it will be naturally adopted over time, without resistance. Trouble with disc brakes on road bikes, is there's been a whole of "meh" about them, along with outright resistance at the highest level of road riding, the pro peloton. They're simply not needed or even wanted by many on a high end road bike, period. So the manufacturers are now either just stopping production of rim brake bikes (what I feared the most), or insisting that their sponsored pro riders actually race on them (as opposed to just doing a dog an pony show at the start of a grand tour before quickly jumping back on their rim brake bike for the actual race), or providing huge financial incentives to dealers to push discs, or all of the above. And if I was a dealer, hell... if pushing discs means more sales, and the manufacturer is willing to give me a good deal to do so, then sure as shootin' I'm gonna push discs. And that's what's happening. But there will still be rim brakes around for a long long time.

To the OP: You would be a fool to ignore what your actual ride experience was telling you at this stage of the game.
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Stitchking
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by Stitchking

Calnago wrote:If I were buying a high end road race bike today, and I know which one it would be... it would be rim brake, and mechanical. It's simply what I prefer. I'm sure I've explained my reasoning many times elsewhere, and all of it still stands.
The argument that I really hate against discs is this: "But I've got all these rim brake bikes and wheels". While that may be a valid reason an individual doesn't want to switch, it is not a valid reason to automatically dismiss disc brakes as evil. If something is truly better, it will be naturally adopted over time, without resistance. Trouble with disc brakes on road bikes, is there's been a whole of "meh" about them, along with outright resistance at the highest level of road riding, the pro peloton. They're simply not needed or even wanted by many on a high end road bike, period. So the manufacturers are now either just stopping production of rim brake bikes (what I feared the most), or insisting that their sponsored pro riders actually race on them (as opposed to just doing a dog an pony show at the start of a grand tour before quickly jumping back on their rim brake bike for the actual race), or providing huge financial incentives to dealers to push discs, or all of the above. And if I was a dealer, hell... if pushing discs means more sales, and the manufacturer is willing to give me a good deal to do so, then sure as shootin' I'm gonna push discs. And that's what's happening. But there will still be rim brakes around for a long long time.

To the OP: You would be a fool to ignore what your actual ride experience was telling you at this stage of the game.
While i agree with 90% of this message, and definitely the overall sentiment (ride what you like), i would like to point out that as a dealer, disc bikes cost more than rim brakes. The wholesale price is usually the same difference as what the consumer sees in the retail. So no direct financial incentives there.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

As a dealer, the ultimate benefit comes from convincing everyone that discs are the only way forward, therefore you need a new bike. Oh... and we have just the thing for you...
That is definitely happening. I get it, new sales have to come from somewhere. It’s the marketers job to step in and create demand where natural demand may be falling short. But damnit... those pros keep resisting. And we need those pics for our promo pics. Enough of the top three finishers all crossing the line on rim brakes. It’s embarrassing.
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Stitchking
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by Stitchking

Calnago wrote:As a dealer, the ultimate benefit comes from convincing everyone that discs are the only way forward, therefore you need a new bike. Oh... and we have just the thing for you...
That is definitely happening. I get it, new sales have to come from somewhere. It’s the marketers job to step in and create demand where natural demand may be falling short. But damnit... those pros keep resisting. And we need those pics for our promo pics. Enough of the top three finishers all crossing the line on rim brakes. It’s embarrassing.
Most roadies are on a 3 year rotation anyway. I guess you can argue the marketing is doing the job but most disc road bikes i sell are because people ask for them, not because I'm pushing them.

Again, if you don't like, don't ride it.

You arent going to see super high end aero on rim brake any more though i think. Hydro brake performance with horrible cable routing is so much better. Its functionally better from a design perspective

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Yes, I’m not saying you personally are pushing them. But the manufacturers are. And they’re doing a good job of marketing them. Thus, people are asking for them. I just would like there to remain choice, but bottom line $$ mentality could easily result in those choices disappearing. And if I believed discs were truly better in all cases, then I’d be completely accepting of that. But I don’t, so I’m not.
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themidge
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by themidge

Calnago wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:53 pm
So the manufacturers are now either just stopping production of rim brake bikes (what I feared the most)... But there will still be rim brakes around for a long long time.
Shimano kept making downtube shifters all the way up to Dura Ace 7900, so hopefully rim brakes will stick around forever :D.

MoPho
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by MoPho

Calnago wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:53 pm
If I were buying a high end road race bike today, and I know which one it would be... it would be rim brake, and mechanical. It's simply what I prefer. I'm sure I've explained my reasoning many times elsewhere, and all of it still stands.
The argument that I really hate against discs is this: "But I've got all these rim brake bikes and wheels". While that may be a valid reason an individual doesn't want to switch, it is not a valid reason to automatically dismiss disc brakes as evil. If something is truly better, it will be naturally adopted over time, without resistance. Trouble with disc brakes on road bikes, is there's been a whole of "meh" about them, along with outright resistance at the highest level of road riding, the pro peloton. They're simply not needed or even wanted by many on a high end road bike, period. So the manufacturers are now either just stopping production of rim brake bikes (what I feared the most), or insisting that their sponsored pro riders actually race on them (as opposed to just doing a dog an pony show at the start of a grand tour before quickly jumping back on their rim brake bike for the actual race), or providing huge financial incentives to dealers to push discs, or all of the above. And if I was a dealer, hell... if pushing discs means more sales, and the manufacturer is willing to give me a good deal to do so, then sure as shootin' I'm gonna push discs. And that's what's happening. But there will still be rim brakes around for a long long time.

To the OP: You would be a fool to ignore what your actual ride experience was telling you at this stage of the game.

I part time at a friends boutique shop that sells high end bikes and we've only sold three rim brake bikes this year. One was a special order limited edition that only came in rim brake (and the buyer also has a disc brake bike), another was a demo that was deeply discounted and the other was a display Pinarello F10 frame that the buyer bought as a back up to his disc brake F10 so he could transfer the parts off his old rim brake bike. The brands carried at the shop come in both rim and disc versions, there is no pressure from the manufactuers and no reason to push disc on people, they ask for it. The shop only builds to order, there are no floor models to push other than moving the old demos at a discount. Many are only buying a new bike because they want to go to disc. No one cares what the pros are riding, if they even follow racing, they typically throw their support towards a brand/team/rider after they make their purchase. Never once heard someone say they wanted a bike because some pro was riding it
Another friend has a main stream brand shop and his experience has been similar. Group rides around here have more and more disc brake bikes and in most cases those still on rim are riding a bike they've had for a few years.
I’m not saying you personally are pushing them.
Actually you are, you just said above that the dealers are pushing them.

And if I believed discs were truly better in all cases, then I’d be completely accepting of that. But I don’t, so I’m not.
And that's fine, but rim brakes aren't trully better in all cases either.



Lewn777 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:02 pm
The long term mainenance is much more than made out, but to be fair most don't show up until the brakes have done over 10,000kms, but dirty dragging pistons, glazed pads, and fluid leaks do happen.

While I am sure some have had problems, I have 21,000km on my disc brake bike and so far I've only had to change pads a few times (and re-align the calipers after), bleed job once, and occasionally wipe the rotor and caliper down with alchohol. On the other hand, my previous rim brake bike used to eat cable housings and I had to change them several times a year and being internally routed it was a bit of work, so there hasn't been much difference in terms of maintenance. That said, I like working on my bike, so either way it's not a big deal for me.


If the OP thinks the rim brake version of the R5 rode better, than he should get that

>

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Calnago
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by Calnago

MoPho wrote:...No one cares what the pros are riding...
The manufacturers do, big time. It’s called marketing. They don’t sponsor pros to get pictures of them crossing the finish line on equipment they’re not trying to sell.
Last edited by Calnago on Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MoPho
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by MoPho

Calnago wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:21 pm

The manufacturers do, big time. It’s called marketing. They don’t sponsor pros to get pictures of them crossing the finish line on equipment they’re trying not trying to sell.
As I've told you before, it's about branding and name recognition, more than marketing a specific bike. You can't buy a Formula 1 car but car manufacturers pour huge amounts of money into the sport because it is about branding.
Most people aren't buying the $10-25k bikes the pros are riding and those that are buy it for the brand not which brakes the pro is using. A Pinarello F10 Disk is the same as rim brake verson Froome used as far as most consumers are concerned



.

asiantrick
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by asiantrick

As I've told you before, it's about branding and name recognition, more than marketing a specific bike. You can't buy a Formula 1 car but car manufacturers pour huge amounts of money into the sport because it is about branding.
Most people aren't buying the $10-25k bikes the pros are riding and those that are buy it for the brand not which brakes the pro is using. A Pinarello F10 Disk is the same as rim brake verson Froome used as far as most consumers are concerned

I don't know about most people, but I want to ride the EXACT same bike that the Pros are riding. I bought my AG2R bike a few years back, because I saw Romain Bardet riding the exact bike on the tour. Please don't tell me that the Pros do not affect how the brand dictate their sales. If the Pros are riding disc brakes, you can bet that Joe Schmoe down the street will be buying the disc version instead of the caliber ones.

hannawald
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by hannawald

You can not deny that manufacturers are pushing disc brakes and want their riders using them. Specialized would not pay Sagan for nothing and he tries to be on discs wherever he can without affecting results although it sometimes does not make sense..Venge Vias disc was pretty porky and nobody wanted to ride it in races so they showed themselves on the bike while training, while making promo pictures before races..and than back on rim brake Tarmac.
I don't say rim brakes are better than disc brakes, normal people needs are different than pro riders needs..i just wanted for some stupid reason a lightweight bike so i choose rim brakes. In some cases you find reviews saying rim brake model is more lively than disc brake one (Canyon Ultimate)..so it may be that discs have their price as well, they brake better, are more universal, good for all year biking etc., but they also sometimes affect how the bike feels with stiffened fork and half a kilo more weight..

MoPho
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by MoPho

asiantrick wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:49 pm



I don't know about most people, but I want to ride the EXACT same bike that the Pros are riding. I bought my AG2R bike a few years back, because I saw Romain Bardet riding the exact bike on the tour. Please don't tell me that the Pros do not affect how the brand dictate their sales. If the Pros are riding disc brakes, you can bet that Joe Schmoe down the street will be buying the disc version instead of the caliber ones.

Nope, it's much more about brand recognition than the specific product. That doesn't mean that no one buys the EXACT same bike they saw a pro ride, but you are the exception not the rule. Do you really think pros would be riding the same bikes availble to consumers if there wasn't a rule saying so? Why would a company that doesn't sell bike related items sponsor pro racing if it was not about the branding and name recognition?

And a lot of folks like to accuse those who buy disc brake bikes as suckers for marketing, so how is buying a bike because you saw a pro use it any different?






.

by Weenie


asiantrick
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by asiantrick

MoPho wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:49 pm
asiantrick wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:49 pm



I don't know about most people, but I want to ride the EXACT same bike that the Pros are riding. I bought my AG2R bike a few years back, because I saw Romain Bardet riding the exact bike on the tour. Please don't tell me that the Pros do not affect how the brand dictate their sales. If the Pros are riding disc brakes, you can bet that Joe Schmoe down the street will be buying the disc version instead of the caliber ones.

Nope, it's much more about brand recognition than the specific product. That doesn't mean that no one buys the EXACT same bike they saw a pro ride, but you are the exception not the rule. Do you really think pros would be riding the same bikes availble to consumers if there wasn't a rule saying so? Why would a company that doesn't sell bike related items sponsor pro racing if it was not about the branding and name recognition?

And a lot of folks like to accuse those who buy disc brake bikes as suckers for marketing, so how is buying a bike because you saw a pro use it any different?
.
But isn't this exactly what I was saying though. The brand is pushing disc brakes in Pro Peloton to increase sales in disc bikes. You have to admit that part. I understand we're not talking about the EXACT bike the pro are riding. I'm just talking about the same frameset. If Sagan is riding the tarmac disc, I can bet you Joe Schmoe wants the disc over caliber.

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