Crit Race: Propel or TCR

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Multebear
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm

by Multebear

You probably need to give it some thought how you will approach the race as well.

Generel rule of thumb is get close to the front of the race, but don't sit on the front. If it's a small peloton, then sit in 5th to 10th position. If its a larger one then 8th to 15th. If you're not strong enough to maintain that position, then you're f*ucked either way. Because if you're too far back, then you'll have to close gaps all the time and you'll have too many riders in front of you who potentially would take you with them if they crash.

And if you're strong enough too close the gaps, then you're also strong enough to move yourself to the front of the race. If you're too far back and not strong enough to close gaps, you'll take too many risks staying on random riders' wheels. And the other guys riding far back the same as you are usually not strong enough either. They will take big risks and they will do it when on the limit. That increases risk of crashing a lot.

But it's usually pretty easy to spot the riders, that will crash eventually. They will reveal their poor bike handling skills when cornering, how they move through the peloton, their level of awareness, how they sit on others wheels and so on. Just avoid them. Better to have them behind you than the opposite.

If you're not strong enough to stay at the front, it's sometimes just better and safer to find a smaller group that rides in a steady pace that fits your level of fitness. You'll get very good training and reduce the risk of crashing.

istigatrice
Posts: 822
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 8:32 am
Location: Australia

by istigatrice

^Mostly true, there's a slight catch though :smartass: ; I doubt you fall into this boat (it seems like it's more applicable to enduro trackies) but just because you're strong enough to close gaps doesn't make you strong enough to move up. One is more a sustained power sort of effort, while the other is about short and well timed bursts. Also being at the back means you can keep a lower profile so people are more likely to 'forget' about you. If you can make multiple 3-5 minute maximum efforts but struggle to hold high power for the length of the race 'chilling' at the back might be a better option, and then moving up in the last few laps. Of course I'm not saying this is how you should race, just pointing out that everyone's different (I've just seen it executed quite well).

I think most people's mentality/style/power curves don't suit that sort of approach though, so you could probably safely ignore the above.
I write the weightweenies blog, hope you like it :)

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by Weenie


amngwlvs
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:45 pm
Location: Barrie, Ontario

by amngwlvs

Multebear wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:13 pm
You probably need to give it some thought how you will approach the race as well.

Generel rule of thumb is get close to the front of the race, but don't sit on the front. If it's a small peloton, then sit in 5th to 10th position. If its a larger one then 8th to 15th. If you're not strong enough to maintain that position, then you're f*ucked either way. Because if you're too far back, then you'll have to close gaps all the time and you'll have too many riders in front of you who potentially would take you with them if they crash.

And if you're strong enough too close the gaps, then you're also strong enough to move yourself to the front of the race. If you're too far back and not strong enough to close gaps, you'll take too many risks staying on random riders' wheels. And the other guys riding far back the same as you are usually not strong enough either. They will take big risks and they will do it when on the limit. That increases risk of crashing a lot.

But it's usually pretty easy to spot the riders, that will crash eventually. They will reveal their poor bike handling skills when cornering, how they move through the peloton, their level of awareness, how they sit on others wheels and so on. Just avoid them. Better to have them behind you than the opposite.

If you're not strong enough to stay at the front, it's sometimes just better and safer to find a smaller group that rides in a steady pace that fits your level of fitness. You'll get very good training and reduce the risk of crashing.
Yeah, my plan is the 5th-10th wheel approach because I'm assuming the field will be pretty small. I I end up off the back I'm not too worried about the other riders back there with me because I can always adjust to them by moving up or leaving a bit of room if they're taking strupid risks. At the end of the day, like you said, it either goes well or I get a good training ride!
istigatrice wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:34 am
^Mostly true, there's a slight catch though :smartass: ; I doubt you fall into this boat (it seems like it's more applicable to enduro trackies) but just because you're strong enough to close gaps doesn't make you strong enough to move up. One is more a sustained power sort of effort, while the other is about short and well timed bursts. Also being at the back means you can keep a lower profile so people are more likely to 'forget' about you. If you can make multiple 3-5 minute maximum efforts but struggle to hold high power for the length of the race 'chilling' at the back might be a better option, and then moving up in the last few laps. Of course I'm not saying this is how you should race, just pointing out that everyone's different (I've just seen it executed quite well).

I think most people's mentality/style/power curves don't suit that sort of approach though, so you could probably safely ignore the above.
I don't think I'm going to ignore that idea at all! That actually seems like it may suit me quite well. I feel like I'd be better at the short well timed bursts than sustaining the high power for the whole race. Thanks for the tips!
2018 Giant TCR Advanced Pro 0 Disc
2015 Giant Propel Advanced 2
2013 Trek 520

amngwlvs
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:45 pm
Location: Barrie, Ontario

by amngwlvs

So results are in... Propel would have been faster. I was 0.5km/h slower this year on the TCR vs last on the Propel and it definitely has nothing to do with my power being down 10 watts. :mrgreen:
2018 Giant TCR Advanced Pro 0 Disc
2015 Giant Propel Advanced 2
2013 Trek 520

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LeDuke
Posts: 1533
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:39 am
Location: Front Range, CO

by LeDuke

amngwlvs wrote:So results are in... Propel would have been faster. I was 0.5km/h slower this year on the TCR vs last on the Propel and it definitely has nothing to do with my power being down 10 watts. :mrgreen:
Uh, what?

Unless you raced solo in the exact same atmospheric conditions each year, you have no realistic basis for comparison.


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amngwlvs
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:45 pm
Location: Barrie, Ontario

by amngwlvs

LeDuke wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:49 am
amngwlvs wrote:So results are in... Propel would have been faster. I was 0.5km/h slower this year on the TCR vs last on the Propel and it definitely has nothing to do with my power being down 10 watts. :mrgreen:
Uh, what?

Unless you raced solo in the exact same atmospheric conditions each year, you have no realistic basis for comparison.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Guess the sarcasm didn't stick there. Rode solo half the race (off the back as usual) and bike made no real difference - I was 10 watts lower and thus 0.5km/h slower. I did like the disc modulation and Di2 though - definitely helped on the downhill/tight u-turn/uphill corner. Being able to brake smoothly and shift two gears at the same time was definiely much easier with Di2.
2018 Giant TCR Advanced Pro 0 Disc
2015 Giant Propel Advanced 2
2013 Trek 520

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4188
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

All the people who win here are breakaway artists on Venges who put a 12-15s gap on the field and hold it after lap 5 or so. If you at all think you can ride off the front, then race the Propel. If you are expected to take big turns reining back in breaks, race the Propel.

Tour says a Madone at 209W is as fast as an Emonda at 238W. That difference increases with more power, so say I end a race at 300W on an aero bike in a solo break...it would have required >340W to do the same on my Emonda. Tour also tested the TCR as even less aero than the Emonda...

amngwlvs
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:45 pm
Location: Barrie, Ontario

by amngwlvs

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:53 pm
All the people who win here are breakaway artists on Venges who put a 12-15s gap on the field and hold it after lap 5 or so. If you at all think you can ride off the front, then race the Propel. If you are expected to take big turns reining back in breaks, race the Propel.

Tour says a Madone at 209W is as fast as an Emonda at 238W. That difference increases with more power, so say I end a race at 300W on an aero bike in a solo break...it would have required >340W to do the same on my Emonda. Tour also tested the TCR as even less aero than the Emonda...
...but the race is already done. And I got dropped. And it wasn't the bikes fault.
2018 Giant TCR Advanced Pro 0 Disc
2015 Giant Propel Advanced 2
2013 Trek 520

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