Sram and Dura Ace combo?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Alolympic
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:23 pm

by Alolympic

Hi guys,

First post on here (well, 2nd if you include me posting this in the wrong section earlier) so firstly hello 8) and go easy....
Got into road biking a couple of years back and now building up a Titanium bike and not trying to brake the bank.
It’s currently running Sram Rival, 10 speed mechanical rim brakes.
So far I have changed wheels, tyres, tubes, seat post, bars, stem, saddle and enjoyed the process.
All that is left really is to reduce some weight from the Groupset and go to an 11 speed,
I am quite liking the SRAM, even though I am more used to Shimano. Have been doing my reading on here and am thinking of:
Sram Red: shifters, front and rear derailleurs, calipers.
Sram force: cassette
Shimano Dura Ace 9000: Compact crankset
I know the sram Red crankset is slightly lighter but I am thinking dura ace as I prefer the design :oops: and I believe it to be very marginally stiffer.

Will this combo work well? I am choosing the sram derailleurs in the hope that I will get the advantage of the yaw ‘magic’ that prevents chain rub, but not sure if I will get this advantage with the dura ace chain rings?

Any experience shared is gratefully

by Weenie


Hexsense
Posts: 496
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Yes it will work.
I even do a step further than you by using Sram shifters with Dura-ace Front derailleur.
Obviously Sram shifter don't trim and Dura-ace FD don't rotate so it only work with:
All gear in the back with big ring and top 7 cog on small ring, otherwise i get chain rub on FD cage. i don't use small ring with bottom 4 gear(11-14) anyway so i don't lose my useful gear.
I value better shift quality, less hand effort and built-in cable adjuster of the Dura-ace FD higher than ability to cross chain small+small.

What is the reason to select Force Cassette over Ultegra?
If Ultegra have the ratio you want, it both shift better and weight less.
However, their 11-28 are not the same:
Shim: 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28
Sram: 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-22-25-28
So if you prefer Sram's way better then it make sense to use Force cassette, otherwise use Ultegra Cassette.

PS. Your mix sound very basic. :P
PS2. Use Shimano Chain.

Vermu
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Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:39 am

by Vermu

Why go for shimano fd when it wont trim? For weight you should go for Campa and functionality (price/performance) for force fd that supports yaw.

Chainrings shouldn’t be an issue. So go with you prefer. A lot of Sram setups or done with other cranksets. Yaw magic might not work at extreme cross chaining, but that should be avoided in the first place - yaw or not.


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Hexsense
Posts: 496
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

From experiment.

Sram FD don't shift oval chainring nearly as good as Shimano's FD. For round ring i also find it shift better (but less noticeable).
Shimano FD (9100) also require less hand force and it has built in cable adjuster, so no inline adjuster needed.
Hence in my case it worth sacrificing small ring+ 11,12,13,14 which is now not usable with Sram Shifter and Shimano FD.
Big ring still get full range of not rubbing even without trim or yaw.

I didn't compare to Campagnolo FD though.

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4ibanez
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by 4ibanez

In terms of the crankset I think Sram Red is stiffer than DA and it's lighter - so a no brainer IMO. The consensus seems to be DA rings are better, but Sram are perfectly good still.

Alolympic
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:23 pm

by Alolympic

Thanks for the replies. 😎
To answer the question about cassette choice, I am thinking Sram because I am using an 11-32 cassette. My rationale for this might be a bit amateur though....
I do quite a lot of hilly riding so like the flexibility of the lower gears. I also trnf to stay in the large front ring, as it minimises the number of gear changes involved when swapping front ring and then rear too. With a 32 cassette I can stay in the front ring 90% of the time. So, the most likely cross chaining scenario is actually large front and large rear.
I was even wondering about going 1x 11 but fear the larger gaps between gears.

My B.B. is GXP, so the weight difference between SRAM red and Dura Ace 9000 is marginal I believe.
I am not aware of the Campa alternative, thought they were all a bit heavier and more expensive?

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Beaver
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Location: Lower Saxony - Germany

by Beaver

There's also an Ultegra 11-32 cassette.

The difference between SRAM Red GXP and Shimano 9100 cranks is around 60g. If you replace the big SRAM chainring with something lighter like PraxisWorks even more.

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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

I love mixing things up so I would go SRAM everything but run Shimano Dura-ace brake calipers (rim) and pedals.

Hexsense
Posts: 496
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Sram chainset weight less, in their normal form with non-removable spider.
Once it become removable (go down to Force, or Red BB386 or Power meter version). It is not special anymore.
Shimano's ring is still the best in the business IMO. So go Shimano First, if you need power meter later then upgrade to Quarq Dfour91, Power2max for Shimano 4 bolt rings, Shimano's own Power meter or even many left crank arm power meter for Shimano. So that you don't need to replace those mega expensive chainrings (check the price out for replacement rings!).

Alolympic
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:23 pm

by Alolympic

Lewn777 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:21 pm
I love mixing things up so I would go SRAM everything but run Shimano Dura-ace brake calipers (rim) and pedals.
I’d understood that Sram shifters aren’t compatible with shimano calipers? Something about the different ratio of movement between the lever and the caliper?
I would sacrifice a bit of weight for better brakes....

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Beaver
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Location: Lower Saxony - Germany

by Beaver

Yes, Shimano brakes have different pull ratios than SRAM or Campy (or old Shimano with external shift cables). It's possible to run, but not ideal.

And the SRAM Red brakes are not really bad, have you tried those?

A Shimano FD with SRAM lever I tried myselt, and wouldn't recommend. You will have chainrub as the SRAM Lever doesn't pull enough cable.

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Kimmoth
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by Kimmoth

Lewn777 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:21 pm
I love mixing things up so I would go SRAM everything but run Shimano Dura-ace brake calipers (rim) and pedals.
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 0&t=152015

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Lewn777
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

Alolympic wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:10 am
Lewn777 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:21 pm
I love mixing things up so I would go SRAM everything but run Shimano Dura-ace brake calipers (rim) and pedals.
I’d understood that Sram shifters aren’t compatible with shimano calipers? Something about the different ratio of movement between the lever and the caliper?
I would sacrifice a bit of weight for better brakes....
Never had a problem with this combo. In fact my Shimano 105 are set a fair distance off the rim and I still have no issue with running Force levers. People saying there is an 'issue' are talking out of their a***, there simply isn't one. How the hell would Shimano and SRAM levers both work with EE or other aftermarket calipers if there was an 'issue'? The lever bites and is fully engaged before it gets anywhere near the bar, in fact I'd say the pull is slightly shorter than Shimano/Shimano, and I prefer it. (similar to Shimano MTB disk brakes) Modulation fine. Power fine. Lever pull distance fine. Someone could easily accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about, but I've got 25 years on motorcycles, 12 years on mountain bikes and three years on road bikes.

Personally I've found all other calipers inferior to Shimano. The other designs just aren't as good, SRAM and others seem to float around especially when they get dirty or out of adjustment often pads end up at randomly different distances from the rim, but Shimano just work conisitently.

Obviously you can't do this with disk brakes as SRAM are DOT fluid whereas Shimano are mineral oil.

joejack951
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Location: Wilmington, DE

by joejack951

Lewn777 wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:56 pm
Never had a problem with this combo. In fact my Shimano 105 are set a fair distance off the rim and I still have no issue with running Force levers. People saying there is an 'issue' are talking out of their a***, there simply isn't one. How the hell would Shimano and SRAM levers both work with EE or other aftermarket calipers if there was an 'issue'? The lever bites and is fully engaged before it gets anywhere near the bar, in fact I'd say the pull is slightly shorter than Shimano/Shimano, and I prefer it. (similar to Shimano MTB disk brakes) Modulation fine. Power fine. Lever pull distance fine. Someone could easily accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about, but I've got 25 years on motorcycles, 12 years on mountain bikes and three years on road bikes.
ee claims that they've 'fine-tuned' their calipers to work with all brands of levers. So they've picked something in between Shimano's SLR-EV pull ratio and SRAM/Campy/Super SLR (old Shimano) and it works well enough it seems. That doesn't mean that all brands' levers work the same. They simply don't, and I say this as someone who has developed a cable pull fix for TRP HY/RD calipers to make them usable with non-Shimano SLR-EV levers.

So I would be very surprised (as mathematically it's impossible) if your lever pull was shorter using SRAM levers and Shimano SLR-EV calipers. Which series 105 calipers are you using? And what style of handlebar? Ergo bars offer more lever travel before bottoming than classic round curve bars.

by Weenie


Hexsense
Posts: 496
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Beaver wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:28 am
A Shimano FD with SRAM lever I tried myselt, and wouldn't recommend. You will have chainrub as the SRAM Lever doesn't pull enough cable.
Yes it has chainrub on small ring +11-12-13-14
That's all on my set up.
I get full range on Big ring and more than half range on my small ring (part that is useful on small ring). I still run it on my bike and i like this two setting better than four settings (low-trim, low, high-trim, high) on Shimano set-up.

It is actually the opposite of "doesn't pull enough cable", it pull more cable than moving from one to another step on Shimano shifters.
It's like a straight jump from low-trim all the way to "a step between high-trim and high, where it get full range without rubbing on big ring" and vice versa without getting in the "low or high-trim" first.

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