Fastest tire - Vittoria Corsa Speed (open TLR)

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
tinozee
Posts: 701
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:53 am

by tinozee

Go for tubeless with the 340s, it's sweet! I had about 15 miles on three sets of those (pro, team and comp) and beat the crap out of them and they held up and were fast with tubeless. I literally never flatted on those and that's in new england and in Europe, in all conditions. I had one rear get soft after spring in europe and Stan's replaced it. It's super easy mounting and tubeless beads fit like a glove. I guess this is off topic but someone mentioned not trusting the 340s

by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Older Stan's rims and certain tires resulted in tires blowing off IIRC. Also the first incarnation of Stan's 340s were just far too light and they had to add material/weight to them.

mrlobber
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by mrlobber

I can confirm these are absolutely the hardest tyres to mount.

And, even more so, on the Aerocoach front, when I pump the tyre up to 100psi, it does not sit against the internal sidewalls of the rim, so tight is the tyre bead. Aerocoach themselves sasy the rims are optimized for 23mm (although the inner width ir quite generous at 19mm), but it looks like this combination is not rideable, because the risk of sidewall going somewhere in a corner is just simply visible there.

I also wonder, how that one would have been set up as tubeless... no chance.
Retired bikes: Cervelo S5 2015 / Felt AR FRD 2014 / Cannondale SS HM 2014 / Scott Addict SL 2014 / Scott Plasma Premium 2014 / Orbea Orca 2008 / Look 596 /

TheKaiser
Posts: 527
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:29 pm

by TheKaiser

ericoschmitt wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:56 am
CrankAddictsRich wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:58 pm

I see you making reference to lighter and lighter inner tubes, inssisting that those would in effect be faster and faster. Is there some study that shows that the weight of the inner tube has an effect on the rolling resistance. I have always been under the impression that latex tubes were faster than butyl tubes because of the material, not strictly because they were lighter... and I assume that lighter latex tubes wouldn't necessarily be any faster because the materal on material contact inside the tire is the same, but maybe I'm making some assumptions that aren't true.
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... s-clincher

I guess both things count. Latex is more flexible and rolls better, and being lighter also makes a difference (80g butyl tubes vs 100g from the same brand)
I'm just not sure where do they balance, for example, 55g butyl tube might roll the same as 70g latex tube?

This guy hasn't tested Supersonic 55g butyl or Vredestein 49 latex or 29g plastic(PVC?) eclipse. But from what he has already tested, the two lightest ones might be faster than any tubeless setup. Even the same Corsa Open TLR tire might be faster if paired with ultra-light tubes instead of tubeless, as his results suggest.
Yes, it is pretty well established that latex rolls better than butyl due to the lesser amount of hysteresis intrinisic to the material. If you take a little rubber band made of each, it is plainly visible in their return speed when stretched and released. For a given amount of material, butyl consumes more energy in internal friction than the latex, but if you use a thinner butyl tube, there is simply less butyl involved in the equasion, so a lighter butyl tube also leads to less rolling resistance. A lighter latex tube vs. a heavier latex tube should roll faster too, but the effect will be less significant (in terms of watts) as latex is so efficient even at normal weight. There also may be some variation between latex tube brands. They clearly use different sources of their materials, and it could be that some have a slightly faster blend than others. For example, many years ago, I remember a company touting a butylized latex, or something like that, which was supposed to solve the faster airloss that goes along with latex normally, however I would suspect that they also gained hysteresis in the mix.

The Eclipse tubes are interesting, as are some of the other plastic tubes that have been tried over the years, like fairly recent blue colored ones were, and the Panaracer Greenlight back in the 90s. The weird thing with them is that they are usually not very stretchy at all. It seems like part of what makes latex so fast rolling is how elastic it is, and it will stretch/flex and return to its former shape without much energy loss. These plastic tubes seem to be kind of the opposite, and often need to be more closely matched to the tire size as they can't expand as much. It seems like they would roll poorly, but they claim great rolling resistance. Maybe they are so damn light that even if the material itself has more hysteresis, there is just not enough of it to matter. It would be interesting to see a 100g tube made with that Eclipse material to compare apples to apples.

Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

My other half runs them for TT duty. They mount easily enough by hand to a Sub9 848 and 404 running light butyl tubes.
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Marin
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Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

TheKaiser wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:51 pm
I remember a company touting a butylized latex, or something like that, which was supposed to solve the faster airloss that goes along with latex normally, however I would suspect that they also gained hysteresis in the mix.
Panaracer R'Air, they tested slower than latex, like a light butyl tube.

TheKaiser wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:51 pm
The Eclipse tubes are interesting, as are some of the other plastic tubes that have been tried over the years, like fairly recent blue colored ones were, and the Panaracer Greenlight back in the 90s. The weird thing with them is that they are usually not very stretchy at all.
They tested very slow (as was to be expected) so they're kinda pointless.

RexWrecks
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:11 pm

by RexWrecks

These ARE fast tires.

But the numbers are a little deceptive. I don't run these at 120 PSI so the watt advantage really isn't that great compared to the next in line.

And what people who say these are flat proof don't seem to get is that at the pressure required to get the rolling resistance benefit the sealant won't hold if there is any puncture. At least from my experience.

With that said the odds of getting a flat on these seems very high.

Out of 5 rides that I have used them I have had one flat in the back and one in the front - unfortunately the last one was in a race and I lost ALL air - and as anyone who has mounted these knows they are practically impossible to take off and put back on - on the road.

Fortunately I had a pit stop that got me going again. Once you get a flat, however, the pressure lost negates any CRR advantage they may provide.

For my money and peace of mind Continental GP TT - with which I have never experienced a flat - with latex is better and at only a watt off according to testing not really much of a trade off.

Anyway my 2 cents.

bikeboy1tr
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:19 am
Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

alcatraz wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:22 am
Monkeyfudger wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:33 am
I use tubeless Vittoria Speeds on one set of wheels between 2 race bikes, TBH I don’t really ride outside much apart from racing so I don’t really care about tyre wear, FWIW I’d estimate a rear last between 2-3000 miles.

I’ve never punctured one but I pray to god I don’t because getting them on and off my Vittoria wheels is enough to make baby Jesus cry... I honestly don’t think I’d get a tube in there if I did puncture.

They’re awesome though, feel lovely and they’re also bloody fast. I don’t think there’s currently anything else out there that can compare?
Have you noticed after riding that the sealant fixed a few punctures? You can see by the change in color where the sealant has been busy.

How much do you weigh?

I used a corsa speed + latex tube on my front wheel when racing and it held. I don't quite dare to use it in the rear. There I have a gp4k for a bit more puncture protection. I weigh 65kg.
Sorry I was off topic here so I deleted my post.
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"-Albert Einstein

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