Fastest tire - Vittoria Corsa Speed (open TLR)

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
tinozee
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by tinozee

Go for tubeless with the 340s, it's sweet! I had about 15 miles on three sets of those (pro, team and comp) and beat the crap out of them and they held up and were fast with tubeless. I literally never flatted on those and that's in new england and in Europe, in all conditions. I had one rear get soft after spring in europe and Stan's replaced it. It's super easy mounting and tubeless beads fit like a glove. I guess this is off topic but someone mentioned not trusting the 340s

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Older Stan's rims and certain tires resulted in tires blowing off IIRC. Also the first incarnation of Stan's 340s were just far too light and they had to add material/weight to them.

by Weenie


mrlobber
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by mrlobber

I can confirm these are absolutely the hardest tyres to mount.

And, even more so, on the Aerocoach front, when I pump the tyre up to 100psi, it does not sit against the internal sidewalls of the rim, so tight is the tyre bead. Aerocoach themselves sasy the rims are optimized for 23mm (although the inner width ir quite generous at 19mm), but it looks like this combination is not rideable, because the risk of sidewall going somewhere in a corner is just simply visible there.

I also wonder, how that one would have been set up as tubeless... no chance.
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TheKaiser
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by TheKaiser

ericoschmitt wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:56 am
CrankAddictsRich wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:58 pm

I see you making reference to lighter and lighter inner tubes, inssisting that those would in effect be faster and faster. Is there some study that shows that the weight of the inner tube has an effect on the rolling resistance. I have always been under the impression that latex tubes were faster than butyl tubes because of the material, not strictly because they were lighter... and I assume that lighter latex tubes wouldn't necessarily be any faster because the materal on material contact inside the tire is the same, but maybe I'm making some assumptions that aren't true.
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... s-clincher

I guess both things count. Latex is more flexible and rolls better, and being lighter also makes a difference (80g butyl tubes vs 100g from the same brand)
I'm just not sure where do they balance, for example, 55g butyl tube might roll the same as 70g latex tube?

This guy hasn't tested Supersonic 55g butyl or Vredestein 49 latex or 29g plastic(PVC?) eclipse. But from what he has already tested, the two lightest ones might be faster than any tubeless setup. Even the same Corsa Open TLR tire might be faster if paired with ultra-light tubes instead of tubeless, as his results suggest.
Yes, it is pretty well established that latex rolls better than butyl due to the lesser amount of hysteresis intrinisic to the material. If you take a little rubber band made of each, it is plainly visible in their return speed when stretched and released. For a given amount of material, butyl consumes more energy in internal friction than the latex, but if you use a thinner butyl tube, there is simply less butyl involved in the equasion, so a lighter butyl tube also leads to less rolling resistance. A lighter latex tube vs. a heavier latex tube should roll faster too, but the effect will be less significant (in terms of watts) as latex is so efficient even at normal weight. There also may be some variation between latex tube brands. They clearly use different sources of their materials, and it could be that some have a slightly faster blend than others. For example, many years ago, I remember a company touting a butylized latex, or something like that, which was supposed to solve the faster airloss that goes along with latex normally, however I would suspect that they also gained hysteresis in the mix.

The Eclipse tubes are interesting, as are some of the other plastic tubes that have been tried over the years, like fairly recent blue colored ones were, and the Panaracer Greenlight back in the 90s. The weird thing with them is that they are usually not very stretchy at all. It seems like part of what makes latex so fast rolling is how elastic it is, and it will stretch/flex and return to its former shape without much energy loss. These plastic tubes seem to be kind of the opposite, and often need to be more closely matched to the tire size as they can't expand as much. It seems like they would roll poorly, but they claim great rolling resistance. Maybe they are so damn light that even if the material itself has more hysteresis, there is just not enough of it to matter. It would be interesting to see a 100g tube made with that Eclipse material to compare apples to apples.

Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

My other half runs them for TT duty. They mount easily enough by hand to a Sub9 848 and 404 running light butyl tubes.
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Marin
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by Marin

TheKaiser wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:51 pm
I remember a company touting a butylized latex, or something like that, which was supposed to solve the faster airloss that goes along with latex normally, however I would suspect that they also gained hysteresis in the mix.
Panaracer R'Air, they tested slower than latex, like a light butyl tube.

TheKaiser wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:51 pm
The Eclipse tubes are interesting, as are some of the other plastic tubes that have been tried over the years, like fairly recent blue colored ones were, and the Panaracer Greenlight back in the 90s. The weird thing with them is that they are usually not very stretchy at all.
They tested very slow (as was to be expected) so they're kinda pointless.

RexWrecks
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by RexWrecks

These ARE fast tires.

But the numbers are a little deceptive. I don't run these at 120 PSI so the watt advantage really isn't that great compared to the next in line.

And what people who say these are flat proof don't seem to get is that at the pressure required to get the rolling resistance benefit the sealant won't hold if there is any puncture. At least from my experience.

With that said the odds of getting a flat on these seems very high.

Out of 5 rides that I have used them I have had one flat in the back and one in the front - unfortunately the last one was in a race and I lost ALL air - and as anyone who has mounted these knows they are practically impossible to take off and put back on - on the road.

Fortunately I had a pit stop that got me going again. Once you get a flat, however, the pressure lost negates any CRR advantage they may provide.

For my money and peace of mind Continental GP TT - with which I have never experienced a flat - with latex is better and at only a watt off according to testing not really much of a trade off.

Anyway my 2 cents.

bikeboy1tr
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by bikeboy1tr

alcatraz wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:22 am
Monkeyfudger wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:33 am
I use tubeless Vittoria Speeds on one set of wheels between 2 race bikes, TBH I don’t really ride outside much apart from racing so I don’t really care about tyre wear, FWIW I’d estimate a rear last between 2-3000 miles.

I’ve never punctured one but I pray to god I don’t because getting them on and off my Vittoria wheels is enough to make baby Jesus cry... I honestly don’t think I’d get a tube in there if I did puncture.

They’re awesome though, feel lovely and they’re also bloody fast. I don’t think there’s currently anything else out there that can compare?
Have you noticed after riding that the sealant fixed a few punctures? You can see by the change in color where the sealant has been busy.

How much do you weigh?

I used a corsa speed + latex tube on my front wheel when racing and it held. I don't quite dare to use it in the rear. There I have a gp4k for a bit more puncture protection. I weigh 65kg.
Sorry I was off topic here so I deleted my post.
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cveks
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by cveks

Hardest tire to mount is for me Mavic Yksion Pro tubeless. Unable to mount it at all. Comparing to them I mounted Vittoria Corsa Speed Tubeless relatively easy.

I am also unable to mount VIttoria Corsa Graphene 2.0 new tires. I just left them to stay for a while.

I mounted Vittoria Corsa Graphene 1.0 clinchers easily many times.

I just mounted them on Mavic Ksirium UST wheels and boy these are so fast. They also feel very comfortable. First 10 km of my ride is good road, and other 10 is very bad. Tires held good. I will further update which mileage I will get from them.

ericoschmitt
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by ericoschmitt

cveks wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 10:50 pm
Hardest tire to mount is for me Mavic Yksion Pro tubeless. Unable to mount it at all. Comparing to them I mounted Vittoria Corsa Speed Tubeless relatively easy.

I am also unable to mount VIttoria Corsa Graphene 2.0 new tires. I just left them to stay for a while.

I mounted Vittoria Corsa Graphene 1.0 clinchers easily many times.

I just mounted them on Mavic Ksirium UST wheels and boy these are so fast. They also feel very comfortable. First 10 km of my ride is good road, and other 10 is very bad. Tires held good. I will further update which mileage I will get from them.
I installed both 23 and 25 versions of CS, the 23 being tight on my LightBicycle 56 wheels, but still able to do it by hand with some work, pumped up with normal floor pump, and 25 being a bit loose, required a pump with air chamber that releases all the air at once, plus manually setting half of the bead over the center channel shoulders otherwise it wouldn't seal even with a compressor. But after that it locks in place.

Anyway, after the release of GP5k I'm out of these tires. My pair lasted 2415km exactly and I tried to ride good roads only, avoiding debris.

Too fragile, the sealant dries fast because of the thin cotton+latex sidewall, the tire looses pressure about as fast as latex inner tubes, so in a month you start getting extra weight of the dry latex on there (and probably some RR with it). As the thread is thin there's too little material for the sealant to hold on after a small puncture, any more than 80psi wouldn't seal anything, and even after the hole was dry if you pumped it to 90 there was a chance a plugged hole would open because the dry latex flew off it. That actually happened to me right on the start of a race, I had been riding 60-65psi then pumped to 90 on the race day. When everybody was on the start line... Commissaries yelled "5 4 3 2 ... pfffsssss" I went flat and didn't even start the race (had no backup car). And I had travelled 200km for that race. The race before that I had a soft rear tire 10km to go with a hill top finish, and I finished that steep climb on the rim.

I finally gave up when I had a 1cm cut from something I couldn't even see or find after walking back, so probably a very small piece of glass. And no chance that would have sealed, I had to deal with the mess, patch the tire and add an inner tube to it. Still rode some 90km before getting back home, and swapped the tires.

Now I have the gp5000 tubeless WITHOUT sealant and they are just fine. I will only add sealant after the first flat or during races so I don't have to bother with dry sealant in it. I'm not sure if I'd use the CS again even for TT raceday only, because the gains are too small. Only if it is on a silk smooth tarmac or on track event.

For short: get GP5k now they are out, don't bother with these.

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cveks
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by cveks

ericoschmitt wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 1:30 am
cveks wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 10:50 pm
Hardest tire to mount is for me Mavic Yksion Pro tubeless. Unable to mount it at all. Comparing to them I mounted Vittoria Corsa Speed Tubeless relatively easy.

I am also unable to mount VIttoria Corsa Graphene 2.0 new tires. I just left them to stay for a while.

I mounted Vittoria Corsa Graphene 1.0 clinchers easily many times.

I just mounted them on Mavic Ksirium UST wheels and boy these are so fast. They also feel very comfortable. First 10 km of my ride is good road, and other 10 is very bad. Tires held good. I will further update which mileage I will get from them.
I installed both 23 and 25 versions of CS, the 23 being tight on my LightBicycle 56 wheels, but still able to do it by hand with some work, pumped up with normal floor pump, and 25 being a bit loose, required a pump with air chamber that releases all the air at once, plus manually setting half of the bead over the center channel shoulders otherwise it wouldn't seal even with a compressor. But after that it locks in place.

Anyway, after the release of GP5k I'm out of these tires. My pair lasted 2415km exactly and I tried to ride good roads only, avoiding debris.

Too fragile, the sealant dries fast because of the thin cotton+latex sidewall, the tire looses pressure about as fast as latex inner tubes, so in a month you start getting extra weight of the dry latex on there (and probably some RR with it). As the thread is thin there's too little material for the sealant to hold on after a small puncture, any more than 80psi wouldn't seal anything, and even after the hole was dry if you pumped it to 90 there was a chance a plugged hole would open because the dry latex flew off it. That actually happened to me right on the start of a race, I had been riding 60-65psi then pumped to 90 on the race day. When everybody was on the start line... Commissaries yelled "5 4 3 2 ... pfffsssss" I went flat and didn't even start the race (had no backup car). And I had travelled 200km for that race. The race before that I had a soft rear tire 10km to go with a hill top finish, and I finished that steep climb on the rim.

I finally gave up when I had a 1cm cut from something I couldn't even see or find after walking back, so probably a very small piece of glass. And no chance that would have sealed, I had to deal with the mess, patch the tire and add an inner tube to it. Still rode some 90km before getting back home, and swapped the tires.

Now I have the gp5000 tubeless WITHOUT sealant and they are just fine. I will only add sealant after the first flat or during races so I don't have to bother with dry sealant in it. I'm not sure if I'd use the CS again even for TT raceday only, because the gains are too small. Only if it is on a silk smooth tarmac or on track event.

For short: get GP5k now they are out, don't bother with these.
I used my for more than 500 km's most of that on bad roads , and they still hold fine no flats yet.

If I get 2400 km from them I would be satisfied.

I like them so much because they are very fast accelerating tires for sprint segments . They roll so smoothly and accelerate so good. I am in love with this tires. I just need to see how long they will last...

I also bought already Continental GP5k tubeless so that would be next tires on my rims once these are spent off.

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