SRAM 2019?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
jlok
Posts: 711
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

Deja vu...
When Di2 was announced: electronics are complicated and wire shifting is just fine
11-speed: I shift just fine with 10, thx and no thx
eTap: It won't work with so much interference around
us
12-speed: Shifting would be compromised with even just a little bit misalignment, let's just stay with 11.
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Shrike
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by Shrike

If moaners ran tech companies we'd all be riding around in 7 speed come 2019 :P

by Weenie


Stueys
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by Stueys

2lo8 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:55 am
thePrince wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:40 am
But for SRAM to go from 11 to 12. So what... A jump from 11 to 14 is a huge innovation...
Why would you expect them to be able to jump from 11 to 14 in one go? It's not like they pick a number out of a hat and just make it. The number of speeds is always incremental. People were saying the same exact thing when they introduced 6/7 speed (8/9 gets a pass because that's when integrated shifters appeared) or when Campy introduced 10/11 speed. It is in fact an engineering challenge to make chains thinner without making too many compromises and keeping the chain strong enough for real world use. It's not simply a matter of scaling the width of everything to make it fit.
To be fair there's nothing stopping manufacturers developing new features incremently, but they don't need to release products to market in increments. They do it to drive groupset refreshes and sales. Not knocking that, they are a business after all.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

How are they supposed to solve the angle of the spokes between hub and rim?
How wide should the rear end be, like 12*148 or?
The chain would need drastical angles and still be rather thin.
1*14 would revial 2*11 but not 2*12.
I also wonder, how a front mech chainmover /cage would be designed.

If you jump to Rotor 1*13, you still need Rotors new Revolver hub.
This is getting kind of crazy. It would be better if they could solve friction, when we're talking drivetrains.
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Karvalo
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

Stueys wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:19 pm
To be fair there's nothing stopping manufacturers developing new features incremently, but they don't need to release products to market in increments. They do it to drive groupset refreshes and sales. Not knocking that, they are a business after all.
Funny thing is that 6 months ago or a year ago there were just as many people complaining that SRAM's development cycle was too long and it had been forever since they released a new system, as there are now complaining that the improvement isn't enough to justify a new release and we're al being taken for a ride by marketing departments.

I think sometimes people forget that companies are under just as much pressure to satisfy us, the market, with new kit as we are to go along with what the companies decide to produce. It's a symbiotic relationship. Like again on the MTB side, when SRAM first produced 1x systems a large number of people were very vocal about how pointless it was and it was just a marketing conspiracy, then just a couple of seasons later Shimano's entire XTR M9000 product line sank without trace in the market because it wasn't expressly designed around 1x with ultra wide cassettes. XTR 1x12 has brought them right back into the fight in terms of what customers want, but how long will it take them to reclaim the OE contracts and consumer trust that SRAM have taken in the meantime?

I think the bike companies are justifiably terrified of being left behind on what turns out to be the next big thing and have us walk away from them.

liam7020
Posts: 894
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:04 am

by liam7020

Shrike wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:03 am
How is SRAM developing 12 speed wireless groupsets related to you being taken for a mug? :?
You obviously don't see that? We're probably all mugs by pandering to the big manufacturers - it's extremely unlikely that an extra cog on the back will enhance our cycling one iota but we'll undoubtedly still buy it. I imagine I'll upgrade to 12 speed something long before my existing drivetrains have become redundant but do I need to? Like a f*cking hole in the head I do, But if you don't see that then you might be an even bigger mug. First world problems chummie.
Last edited by liam7020 on Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mattr
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by mattr

liam7020 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:51 pm
I imagine I'll upgrade to 12 speed something long before my existing drivetrains have become redundant but do I need to? Like a f*cking hole in the head I do, But if you don't see that then you might be a an even bigger mug. First world problems chummie.
This, many of the nominally quite small changes have required wholesale changes for minimal (or no) benefit, other then being able to get decent quality spares/parts.

alfus1
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:28 pm

by alfus1

wheelsONfire wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:17 pm
If you jump to Rotor 1*13, you still need Rotors new Revolver hub.
And have a loooooot of faith.....it's a disaster.

Monkeyfudger
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:26 pm

by Monkeyfudger

jlok wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:00 am
eTap: It won't work with so much interference around
us
:lol: To be fair it does appear to be a bit @#$% reliability wise...

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ergott
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by ergott

mattyNor wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:11 pm
Just got word that new vs old Etap parts will not be compatible, so keep an eye out for Etap groups for 30% off

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I'm not surprised, but this is complete BS. Only difference in an eletronic groupset is the programming for shifts. No reason you can't shift 12 cogs with current eTap if provided with a firmware update. I don't want/need the extra range, 11-28 gives me all of it. If they made a 12 speed cassette that added another cog but I could keep the rest of my components I'd be all over that.

Shrike
Posts: 1383
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:08 pm

by Shrike

liam7020 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:51 pm
Shrike wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:03 am
How is SRAM developing 12 speed wireless groupsets related to you being taken for a mug? :?
You obviously don't see that? We're probably all mugs by pandering to the big manufacturers - it's extremely unlikely that an extra cog on the back will enhance our cycling one iota but we'll undoubtedly still buy it. I imagine I'll upgrade to 12 speed something long before my existing drivetrains have become redundant but do I need to? Like a f*cking hole in the head I do, But if you don't see that then you might be an even bigger mug. First world problems chummie.
Nope, still not seeing it.

Occasionally when I want to buy or build a bike, I pick things that I like and can afford, then ride it.

The later the year it is the more advanced the purchases are, and I'd be extremely disappointed otherwise.

At what point have I been mugged?

I'd be mugged if it was 2019 and I was buying the same tech that came out in 2015 for the same money. Or some half-arsed attempt at something dramatic like 1x14 that clearly shouldn't have been brought to market because the tooling and tolerance simply don't exist yet on the entire planet.

Or maybe tech companies should just fire all their development teams because incremental updates displease people who feel entitled to have massive leaps in technology every release, or can't control their spending habits, or just care about things that have absolutely no importance whatsoever.

You can buy tech parts from 30 years ago, so I highly doubt your 11 speed drivetrain is going to be irrelevant any time soon. Calm down and grow a sense of proportion.

liam7020
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by liam7020

Knew you wouldn't get it.
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Jugi
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:10 am

by Jugi


ergott wrote: I'm not surprised, but this is complete BS. Only difference in an eletronic groupset is the programming for shifts.
There may be a technical reason to change the wireless communication standard the group uses. At this point that reason would come from the MTB side, if wireless dropper posts and suspension lock-outs are not some how catered sufficiently inside the 11spd eTap's Airea. It would be a drawback at this point, but would most likely save resources at SRAM if Eagle eTap and eTap 24(?) would use the same base technologies.

2lo8
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:32 am

by 2lo8

Jugi wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:17 pm
ergott wrote: I'm not surprised, but this is complete BS. Only difference in an eletronic groupset is the programming for shifts.
There may be a technical reason to change the wireless communication standard the group uses. At this point that reason would come from the MTB side, if wireless dropper posts and suspension lock-outs are not catered sufficiently inside the 11spd eTap's Airea. It would be a drawback at this point, but would most likely save resources at SRAM if Eagle eTap and eTap 24(?) would use the same base technologies.

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A mostly artificial challenge. This isn't really that different from Campy tweaking cable pull from generation to generation though. I'm not liking the new Shimano trend of getting more cheaply made parts than yesteryear either though.
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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

alfus1 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:55 pm
wheelsONfire wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:17 pm
If you jump to Rotor 1*13, you still need Rotors new Revolver hub.
And have a loooooot of faith.....it's a disaster.
How do you know 1*13 is a disaster?
Or do you feel that way due to the need for Rotors rear hub?
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by Weenie


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