SRAM 2019?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Stueys
Posts: 269
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:12 pm

by Stueys

2lo8 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:55 am
thePrince wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:40 am
But for SRAM to go from 11 to 12. So what... A jump from 11 to 14 is a huge innovation...
Why would you expect them to be able to jump from 11 to 14 in one go? It's not like they pick a number out of a hat and just make it. The number of speeds is always incremental. People were saying the same exact thing when they introduced 6/7 speed (8/9 gets a pass because that's when integrated shifters appeared) or when Campy introduced 10/11 speed. It is in fact an engineering challenge to make chains thinner without making too many compromises and keeping the chain strong enough for real world use. It's not simply a matter of scaling the width of everything to make it fit.
To be fair there's nothing stopping manufacturers developing new features incremently, but they don't need to release products to market in increments. They do it to drive groupset refreshes and sales. Not knocking that, they are a business after all.

by Weenie


User avatar
wheelsONfire
Posts: 2630
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

How are they supposed to solve the angle of the spokes between hub and rim?
How wide should the rear end be, like 12*148 or?
The chain would need drastical angles and still be rather thin.
1*14 would revial 2*11 but not 2*12.
I also wonder, how a front mech chainmover /cage would be designed.

If you jump to Rotor 1*13, you still need Rotors new Revolver hub.
This is getting kind of crazy. It would be better if they could solve friction, when we're talking drivetrains.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

Karvalo
Posts: 466
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

Stueys wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:19 pm
To be fair there's nothing stopping manufacturers developing new features incremently, but they don't need to release products to market in increments. They do it to drive groupset refreshes and sales. Not knocking that, they are a business after all.
Funny thing is that 6 months ago or a year ago there were just as many people complaining that SRAM's development cycle was too long and it had been forever since they released a new system, as there are now complaining that the improvement isn't enough to justify a new release and we're al being taken for a ride by marketing departments.

I think sometimes people forget that companies are under just as much pressure to satisfy us, the market, with new kit as we are to go along with what the companies decide to produce. It's a symbiotic relationship. Like again on the MTB side, when SRAM first produced 1x systems a large number of people were very vocal about how pointless it was and it was just a marketing conspiracy, then just a couple of seasons later Shimano's entire XTR M9000 product line sank without trace in the market because it wasn't expressly designed around 1x with ultra wide cassettes. XTR 1x12 has brought them right back into the fight in terms of what customers want, but how long will it take them to reclaim the OE contracts and consumer trust that SRAM have taken in the meantime?

I think the bike companies are justifiably terrified of being left behind on what turns out to be the next big thing and have us walk away from them.

liam7020
Posts: 989
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:04 am

by liam7020

Shrike wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:03 am
How is SRAM developing 12 speed wireless groupsets related to you being taken for a mug? :?
You obviously don't see that? We're probably all mugs by pandering to the big manufacturers - it's extremely unlikely that an extra cog on the back will enhance our cycling one iota but we'll undoubtedly still buy it. I imagine I'll upgrade to 12 speed something long before my existing drivetrains have become redundant but do I need to? Like a f*cking hole in the head I do, But if you don't see that then you might be an even bigger mug. First world problems chummie.
Last edited by liam7020 on Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tarmac SL6 & Campag Record EPS https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 0&t=153968

"Sometimes you don't need a plan. You just need big balls." Tom Boonen

mattr
Posts: 4444
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

liam7020 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:51 pm
I imagine I'll upgrade to 12 speed something long before my existing drivetrains have become redundant but do I need to? Like a f*cking hole in the head I do, But if you don't see that then you might be a an even bigger mug. First world problems chummie.
This, many of the nominally quite small changes have required wholesale changes for minimal (or no) benefit, other then being able to get decent quality spares/parts.

Monkeyfudger
Posts: 296
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:26 pm

by Monkeyfudger

jlok wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:00 am
eTap: It won't work with so much interference around
us
:lol: To be fair it does appear to be a bit @#$% reliability wise...

User avatar
ergott
Posts: 2886
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:03 am
Location: Islip, NY
Contact:

by ergott

mattyNor wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:11 pm
Just got word that new vs old Etap parts will not be compatible, so keep an eye out for Etap groups for 30% off

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
I'm not surprised, but this is complete BS. Only difference in an eletronic groupset is the programming for shifts. No reason you can't shift 12 cogs with current eTap if provided with a firmware update. I don't want/need the extra range, 11-28 gives me all of it. If they made a 12 speed cassette that added another cog but I could keep the rest of my components I'd be all over that.

Shrike
Posts: 1512
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:08 pm

by Shrike

liam7020 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:51 pm
Shrike wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:03 am
How is SRAM developing 12 speed wireless groupsets related to you being taken for a mug? :?
You obviously don't see that? We're probably all mugs by pandering to the big manufacturers - it's extremely unlikely that an extra cog on the back will enhance our cycling one iota but we'll undoubtedly still buy it. I imagine I'll upgrade to 12 speed something long before my existing drivetrains have become redundant but do I need to? Like a f*cking hole in the head I do, But if you don't see that then you might be an even bigger mug. First world problems chummie.
Nope, still not seeing it.

Occasionally when I want to buy or build a bike, I pick things that I like and can afford, then ride it.

The later the year it is the more advanced the purchases are, and I'd be extremely disappointed otherwise.

At what point have I been mugged?

I'd be mugged if it was 2019 and I was buying the same tech that came out in 2015 for the same money. Or some half-arsed attempt at something dramatic like 1x14 that clearly shouldn't have been brought to market because the tooling and tolerance simply don't exist yet on the entire planet.

Or maybe tech companies should just fire all their development teams because incremental updates displease people who feel entitled to have massive leaps in technology every release, or can't control their spending habits, or just care about things that have absolutely no importance whatsoever.

You can buy tech parts from 30 years ago, so I highly doubt your 11 speed drivetrain is going to be irrelevant any time soon. Calm down and grow a sense of proportion.

liam7020
Posts: 989
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:04 am

by liam7020

Knew you wouldn't get it.
Tarmac SL6 & Campag Record EPS https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 0&t=153968

"Sometimes you don't need a plan. You just need big balls." Tom Boonen

Jugi
Posts: 384
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:10 am

by Jugi


ergott wrote: I'm not surprised, but this is complete BS. Only difference in an eletronic groupset is the programming for shifts.
There may be a technical reason to change the wireless communication standard the group uses. At this point that reason would come from the MTB side, if wireless dropper posts and suspension lock-outs are not some how catered sufficiently inside the 11spd eTap's Airea. It would be a drawback at this point, but would most likely save resources at SRAM if Eagle eTap and eTap 24(?) would use the same base technologies.

2lo8
Posts: 539
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:32 am

by 2lo8

Jugi wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:17 pm
ergott wrote: I'm not surprised, but this is complete BS. Only difference in an eletronic groupset is the programming for shifts.
There may be a technical reason to change the wireless communication standard the group uses. At this point that reason would come from the MTB side, if wireless dropper posts and suspension lock-outs are not catered sufficiently inside the 11spd eTap's Airea. It would be a drawback at this point, but would most likely save resources at SRAM if Eagle eTap and eTap 24(?) would use the same base technologies.

Lähetetty minun TA-1004 laitteesta Tapatalkilla
A mostly artificial challenge. This isn't really that different from Campy tweaking cable pull from generation to generation though. I'm not liking the new Shimano trend of getting more cheaply made parts than yesteryear either though.
[6.6kg of no carbon fiber]
[2lo8.wordpress.com]
Your one-stop source for information and reviews on cheap eBay bike junk.

User avatar
wheelsONfire
Posts: 2630
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

alfus1 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:55 pm
wheelsONfire wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:17 pm
If you jump to Rotor 1*13, you still need Rotors new Revolver hub.
And have a loooooot of faith.....it's a disaster.
How do you know 1*13 is a disaster?
Or do you feel that way due to the need for Rotors rear hub?
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

User avatar
wheelsONfire
Posts: 2630
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

I don't see why some guys complain of Sram going 2*12 speed?
If 2*11 speed is available for a much better price it's all good, or?
Even if 2*12 speed is the latest, it doesn't make Etap 22 anything different from what it was before.
Only thing that would eat me, is if i buy a complete bike (Etap is on sale, but the 2019 bikes fitted with Etap, charges outgoing Etap way higher).
It would be another year until these bikes comes with Etap 24.
Personally i don't bother with 2* 12 speed over 2*11.
I see zero reason to change a superb groupset, be it Shimano, Campa or Sram, just because it comes with 2 more gears.
It becomes more and more hysteria around new stuff. A few years it's über light, next it's 180 degrees around and it's aero with disc brakes.
Why not just build an über bike and ride it until it's really a hike up in standards?
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 3013
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

If the front shifting is improved, I'll upgrade...

User avatar
Lewn777
Posts: 584
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

I love SRAM shifting and I'm excited with the idea of a 10-28 with an 50-34. I think I'd prefer to have etap rear without it on the front but that's not possible I think. I hope they've sorted the front derailleur drop issues or I'll be waiting for mechanical. I hope that it's possible to keep the 11 speed chainset with this new flat chain design as I want to keep my crank based power meter.

by Weenie


Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post