SRAM 2019?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1892
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

jlok wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:52 am

I really hope a new design is still under the hood. Maybe SRAM just not showing the newer shifter/caliper designs.... (they should have the capability to program the current Red shifters to work with 12-speed rd as it's just a switch).

I'm not holding out hope for this, but being able to just buy FD, RD, cassette, XDR driver and chainrings or crankset would be lovely.

by Weenie


Jugi
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by Jugi

That wouldn’t be just lovely, it would be a serious blow to Shimano. Shimano seems to uphold very strict systematic thinking when it comes to compatibility between components. It is justifiable when there are many different components and the customer can end up using very varied combinations, but it does create some weird imaginery fences between components which should be compatible by common sense.

I think a whole ”eTap family” of compatible components would be exactly what SRAM needs to increase their market share in road cycling.

dudemanppl
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by dudemanppl

?? Shimano is all compatible other than 10 speed? eTap is for people who don't like good shifting.

Jugi
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by Jugi

dudemanppl wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:25 pm
?? Shimano is all compatible other than 10 speed?
This is exactly what I mean. If I have understood correctly, electronic shifting levers do not include any indexing or logic, as they are just buttons that get pushed. But for some reason, if I had a pair of Dura-Ace Di2 7970 levers laying on a shelf, I can’t use them with Dura-Ace Di2 9150 components although the basic tech is the same? And following the same logic, when the imminent release of 12spd Dura-Ace happens all the 11spd components become antique?

TurboKoo
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by TurboKoo

7970 uses different type of electrical cables and hence is not compatible. All other Di2 systems use e-tube and can be used and mixed.
Scott Foil
Shimano 9150
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Ritxis
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by Ritxis

Jugi wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:04 pm
dudemanppl wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:25 pm
?? Shimano is all compatible other than 10 speed?
This is exactly what I mean. If I have understood correctly, electronic shifting levers do not include any indexing or logic, as they are just buttons that get pushed. But for some reason, if I had a pair of Dura-Ace Di2 7970 levers laying on a shelf, I can’t use them with Dura-Ace Di2 9150 components although the basic tech is the same? And following the same logic, when the imminent release of 12spd Dura-Ace happens all the 11spd components become antique?

The technology of the first Dura-ace 7970 Di2, It has nothing to do with the Di2 E-tube (the first Di2 e-tube was the Ultegra 6770 10 speed) you can mix almost all the components Di2 e-Tube,e ven road, mountain and urban (Alfine) components .......(There are very few incompatibilities)

Karvalo
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Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

Jugi wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:04 pm
dudemanppl wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:25 pm
?? Shimano is all compatible other than 10 speed?
This is exactly what I mean. If I have understood correctly, electronic shifting levers do not include any indexing or logic, as they are just buttons that get pushed. But for some reason, if I had a pair of Dura-Ace Di2 7970 levers laying on a shelf, I can’t use them with Dura-Ace Di2 9150 components although the basic tech is the same?
No, the basic tech isn't the same. Fundamentally, after releasing 7970 Shimano realised that its semi-permanent cabling solution sucked. They developed the Etube cabling system for the release of Ultegra 6770 to offer increased plug and play options. They have now used the same Etube system on 4 road iterations of DI2, 2 MTB iterations and Alfine, with almost complete compatibility between any mix and match of components from any of them. Including the ability to use 10 speed 6770 shifters with 11 speed derailleurs :wink:
And following the same logic, when the imminent release of 12spd Dura-Ace happens all the 11spd components become antique?
Following the right logic, when Shimano release 12 speed, they will probably do exactly what you want them to do, and continue to cater for 11 speed compatibility through firmware changes. Unless there is a major physical change like wireless of course.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

I still wonder of the angle of the spokes going 12 speed, is it same as 11 speed?
The new freehub bodies, are they wider?
If so, how does it work with the old 130mm rim brake standard?
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Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

dudemanppl wrote:?? Shimano is all compatible other than 10 speed? eTap is for people who don't like good shifting.
The front mech is pretty woeful, rear always seemed ok for me. In saying that I sold my Etap HRD to replace it with 8070...
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liam7020
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by liam7020

If the freehub standard is changed from HG might be an option to stick a Campag 12 speed cassette onto a Campag freehub. I've used 11 speed Campag cassettes with Etap without issues.

Presently using Record EPS with a DA cassette, KMC chain and Praxis front rings and it works a treat - always prepared to give a bit of mix and match a shot despite whatever bullsh*t the manufacturers spout out!
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Karvalo
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Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

wheelsONfire wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:25 pm
I still wonder of the angle of the spokes going 12 speed, is it same as 11 speed?
The new freehub bodies, are they wider?
If so, how does it work with the old 130mm rim brake standard?
It's all the same, so far. Although Campag is the only 12 speed road that's been released, Sram and Shimano have 12 speed MTB groups out there and so far none of the new freehubs are any wider than before (MTB freehub width hasn't changed since 10speed, even).

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themidge
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by themidge

If Sram goes 12 speed road (and it seems they will looking at the photos), will they go with Campagnolo spacing on the cassette? Can they? If the they do, will Shimano follow suit and we end up with cross compatibility between all three brands?

Edit: I forgot about Rotor, how do they fit in all of this?

solarider
Posts: 494
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:08 pm

by solarider

Rotor? FSA? Who cares?! I really can’t see the space in the market for another scale groupset player. As much as I value consumer choice and dislike a monopoly, the new entrants in the market haven’t brought much relevant innovation to play. The big 3 seem to have most of the patents wrapped up meaning any new entrant has to be different for the sake of it to avoid patent infringement. It’s virtually a lockout. SRAM seem to have managed it, but they are the only ones who could introduce a third freehub standard (XD). Looks like we will have 3 freehub standards on the road soon, and I just can’t see anybody else being able to introduce another into an already crowded market.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

The FSA group is vaporware to the consumer as of right now. I do think the Rotor UNO group is interesting. They managed to bring most of the benefits of electronic shifting to the rear derailleur...as in precise indexing, low hand force, etc. The fact that the rear derailleur uses ratchets for indexing is cool when it comes to upgrade paths. UNO front shifting was terrible and it's not surprising Rotor has quickly moved to 1x.

ch00bzs
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by ch00bzs

spotted on saitama criterium - katusha team with prototype

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by Weenie


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