Hi,
I have a Campagnolo Super Record 2015 crankset in my C60 and have some question for the replacement of some parts of the bottom bracket.
- Which size are the Campagnolo Ultra Torque cups? BB 86.4x41?
- Is there a specific model for the Super Record crankset?
- And how should I proceed if I want to replace them?
Just hammering them out with a Pressfit bottom bracket tool
https://www.parktool.com/product/press- ... %20Bracket
and then installing these with a bearing cup press tool?
https://www.parktool.com/product/bottom ... -set-bbp-1
Colnago C60 bottom bracket
Moderator: robbosmans
Yes, the cups you need are 86.5x41 and the part number is IC15-RE41. I'm not aware of a Super Record specific variant.
I use the Campag press to install them but I don't see why the Park one wouldn't work as long as the drifts fit.
I can't help with the removal question as I haven't had that pleasure yet!
I use the Campag press to install them but I don't see why the Park one wouldn't work as long as the drifts fit.
I can't help with the removal question as I haven't had that pleasure yet!
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I just installed the cups into my (new to me) C60. I will note that the box of the Campag cups did say something about being for SRecord only. However, I went ahead and installed my Chorus cranks in there regardless. No issues. I don’t see how these “SRecord Only” cups are any different from other Ultra-Torque cups.
I agree with the point about replacing the cups. Unless you have damaged them in some way (how would you really do this?), then there isn’t a real reason to replace them. The bearings may need to be replaced over time, but that would not involve replacing the cups. FWIW, I used a wooden mallet to tap the cups into place. When I needed to get one out, I used a drift and the same wooden mallet to tap the cup out from the opposite side. Be careful to ensure that you have the drift positioned against the cup only, as there is a small lip which is part of the frame/bottom bracket on which your drift might tend to rest if you are not careful.
Hope this helps.
I agree with the point about replacing the cups. Unless you have damaged them in some way (how would you really do this?), then there isn’t a real reason to replace them. The bearings may need to be replaced over time, but that would not involve replacing the cups. FWIW, I used a wooden mallet to tap the cups into place. When I needed to get one out, I used a drift and the same wooden mallet to tap the cup out from the opposite side. Be careful to ensure that you have the drift positioned against the cup only, as there is a small lip which is part of the frame/bottom bracket on which your drift might tend to rest if you are not careful.
Hope this helps.
Antoine has a good point. Unless you see visible signs of the anodization being worn away, then I’d just leave the cups as they are. Is there a specific reason you want to remove them?
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
During the installation my upgrade to EPS I removed the Colnago Threadfit sleeve with the cup inside in order to have a better access to all this BB area, to the EPS cables and to install the EPS protection sleeve for the BB.
Now I figured out that I didn’t have to remove the Threadfit sleeve with the cup but just the cup itself I suppose.
I want therefore to remove the cup itself now and torque the Threadfit sleeve correctly.
Now I figured out that I didn’t have to remove the Threadfit sleeve with the cup but just the cup itself I suppose.
I want therefore to remove the cup itself now and torque the Threadfit sleeve correctly.
Ah... I see. Ok. But first, you’ve got EPS installed, right? With the EPS sleeve in there? Unfortunately, you’re likely going to have to destroy the sleeve (cut it out) to be able to get access for your tool to get a hold of the cups.
Is there a reason you think your Threadfit cups may not be torqued to spec? If not, and your eps doesn’t need to be fiddled with, why not just leave well enough alone?
But if you know they are loose then why not just remove them with the cups inside (and be able to save the eps sleeve in the process)? Like you did before. But that has me asking... how did you remove the Threadfit cups before without removing the cups first. I suppose I could check but I wouldn’t think the tool is deep enough to catch the Threadfit cups it’s the Campy cups still in there? I’m curious now... going to check.
Is there a reason you think your Threadfit cups may not be torqued to spec? If not, and your eps doesn’t need to be fiddled with, why not just leave well enough alone?
But if you know they are loose then why not just remove them with the cups inside (and be able to save the eps sleeve in the process)? Like you did before. But that has me asking... how did you remove the Threadfit cups before without removing the cups first. I suppose I could check but I wouldn’t think the tool is deep enough to catch the Threadfit cups it’s the Campy cups still in there? I’m curious now... going to check.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Yes you can remove the ThreadFit sleeve with the cup inside using the Colnago tool. It is however quite tight then and you have to be very careful to have it placed adequately.
How do you remove the cups the best way? Just hammering them out with a pressfit bottom bracket tool?
How do you remove the cups the best way? Just hammering them out with a pressfit bottom bracket tool?
Yes, I get it... I wouldn’t remove the Threadfit cups with the adapter cups inside either, but I suppose you could in a pinch and I know some people have done it. Just don’t need to put any more stress on the threads than necessary.
So, what’s the best way to remove the cups from a C60.
With mechanical it’s easy. You use the Park Tool RT-1 which will catch the cups outer edge of the cups as pictured below....
But an EPS pressfit install creates a world of hurt if you have the EPS sleeve installed. You pretty much have to cut up the sleeve and push it aside in order to be able to insert the tool and have the legs be able to expand to catch the cups as in the above photo.
As an aside, I kind of think this may be the main reason Colnago moved to a two piece Threadfit collar in the later C60’s and the new C64, because with the continuous (with cutouts) sleeve going all the way through, I’m just not sure where you’d push the cut up EPS sleeve so that it would be out of the way enough to allow the forks to expand and catch the cup edges properly.
So what’s a girl to do. Firstly, I have not actually had to remove the cups from a C60 EPS install yet, but I went through the thought process when I installed them. There’s another thread somehwere discussing this exact issue. I’m sure you could find it if you search.
But since then, I have scratched my head and think (but have not tried it) I know how I will go about it when the time comes. I will take the smaller Park Tool BBT.90.3 tool (used to remove bearings from Trek BB90 Shells, and bend the fork ends out enough so that they grab the “inner” lip that holds the seals in the Campy cup. I’m hoping those lips will be sturdy enough to withstand a good whack and the cups will just pop out. Here’s the two tools side by side for comparison, the smaller BB90 tool on the left...
Now, below you can see that the tool is way too small as is to catch even the inner lips of the seal seats in the Campy cups...
So I’m thinking I will just pre bend the four prongs out just enough to be able to perfectly fit the seal seats and voila, I have my own tool for just such purposes. Pretty sure it’s gonna work a treat but haven’t had occasion to do it yet. Maybe next time I’m in Canada you could meet me in White Rock and we’ll bang that baby out for ya. And you can buy me some fish n chips at Moby Dicks on the waterfront.
So, what’s the best way to remove the cups from a C60.
With mechanical it’s easy. You use the Park Tool RT-1 which will catch the cups outer edge of the cups as pictured below....
But an EPS pressfit install creates a world of hurt if you have the EPS sleeve installed. You pretty much have to cut up the sleeve and push it aside in order to be able to insert the tool and have the legs be able to expand to catch the cups as in the above photo.
As an aside, I kind of think this may be the main reason Colnago moved to a two piece Threadfit collar in the later C60’s and the new C64, because with the continuous (with cutouts) sleeve going all the way through, I’m just not sure where you’d push the cut up EPS sleeve so that it would be out of the way enough to allow the forks to expand and catch the cup edges properly.
So what’s a girl to do. Firstly, I have not actually had to remove the cups from a C60 EPS install yet, but I went through the thought process when I installed them. There’s another thread somehwere discussing this exact issue. I’m sure you could find it if you search.
But since then, I have scratched my head and think (but have not tried it) I know how I will go about it when the time comes. I will take the smaller Park Tool BBT.90.3 tool (used to remove bearings from Trek BB90 Shells, and bend the fork ends out enough so that they grab the “inner” lip that holds the seals in the Campy cup. I’m hoping those lips will be sturdy enough to withstand a good whack and the cups will just pop out. Here’s the two tools side by side for comparison, the smaller BB90 tool on the left...
Now, below you can see that the tool is way too small as is to catch even the inner lips of the seal seats in the Campy cups...
So I’m thinking I will just pre bend the four prongs out just enough to be able to perfectly fit the seal seats and voila, I have my own tool for just such purposes. Pretty sure it’s gonna work a treat but haven’t had occasion to do it yet. Maybe next time I’m in Canada you could meet me in White Rock and we’ll bang that baby out for ya. And you can buy me some fish n chips at Moby Dicks on the waterfront.
Last edited by Calnago on Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
I will indeed have to check the size of the bottom bracket removal tool to fit the cups. When removing the cup I will first remove the ThreadFit sleeve with the cup (as I did previously) so that I can keep the EPS protection sleeve. I have also asked my LBS to get a new pair of ThreadFit sleeve (and a rear derailleur hanger) as a replacement set in case. I suppose that will be my winter maintenance project on my C60.
Fish and chips sounds good! But not really on my diet unfortunately (for some reasons this year I am pretty much late to get my summer weight). Or we have to ride 200k before 🤪
Fish and chips sounds good! But not really on my diet unfortunately (for some reasons this year I am pretty much late to get my summer weight). Or we have to ride 200k before 🤪
By the way, in that first pick where the RT-1 is pretty much fitting those cups perfectly, that’s because I’ve already pre bent the prongs to fit like that. I can’t remember if, before bending them, the prongs would spring out too wide (I think that was it) or they were not wide enough, probably the former. It is made of very springy strong steel and due to the nature of the two part alloy sleeve in the last C60s and new C64’s I wanted to make sure that the prongs wouldn’t spring out so far they’d actually have a chance of catching the edges of the ThreadFit cups by mistake.
So, in cases where the EPS sleeve is installed, making it impossible to use the RT-1 properly, I’m thinking I just need to bend the prongs of the smaller tool outward so they fit the inner lip of the seal seats perfectly and this will do the trick. And if it does, I’ll probably just use it exclusively on Campy Pressfit cups because there’s no chance of it even touching the inner walls of the BB shell (for non Colnago frames) or the inner wall of the Threadfit cups on Colnago frames.
By the way, it’s not the Threadfit cups I’d be worried about damaging. They are easily replaceable. It’s the threads in the BB shell itself that I’d be extra careful with during removal while you have a pressfit cup installed. It’s like having a lot of force pushing outwards into the threads as you’re unscrewing the thing. You don’t want to be enlarging those fine threads any more than you have to, and unscrewing a forcibly tight cup may behave a tiny bit as if you were chasing the threads in new or damaged BSA shell.
So, in cases where the EPS sleeve is installed, making it impossible to use the RT-1 properly, I’m thinking I just need to bend the prongs of the smaller tool outward so they fit the inner lip of the seal seats perfectly and this will do the trick. And if it does, I’ll probably just use it exclusively on Campy Pressfit cups because there’s no chance of it even touching the inner walls of the BB shell (for non Colnago frames) or the inner wall of the Threadfit cups on Colnago frames.
By the way, it’s not the Threadfit cups I’d be worried about damaging. They are easily replaceable. It’s the threads in the BB shell itself that I’d be extra careful with during removal while you have a pressfit cup installed. It’s like having a lot of force pushing outwards into the threads as you’re unscrewing the thing. You don’t want to be enlarging those fine threads any more than you have to, and unscrewing a forcibly tight cup may behave a tiny bit as if you were chasing the threads in new or damaged BSA shell.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Tony, why are you taking out the current cups? Are they creaking?
No creak so far. I just upgraded to EPS and I removed the ThreadFit sleeve with the cup inserted in order to have a better access to the BB area and to install also the EPS protection sleeve. I suppose that I could have done that without removing these however.
Now I plan to do a full maintenance of my C60/ Campy in the winter and check all torques etc...and I would like to get prepared.
Now I plan to do a full maintenance of my C60/ Campy in the winter and check all torques etc...and I would like to get prepared.
https://youtu.be/mef7UJoRLiQ?t=352
How come you can install BB30/PF30 crankset on BB86 bottom bracket like on this video here at 5:52?
How come you can install BB30/PF30 crankset on BB86 bottom bracket like on this video here at 5:52?
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-
carbontulip
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:45 pm
Resurrecting this thread with some great news!
After going mad for a looong time with the underdeveloped Campy pressfit BB cups' solution, I am happy to report that there is now a perfect option for the creaky Campy BB cups.
C-Bear!!!
https://www.c-bear.com/en/products/bott ... rifgeR8AsM
This ticks all the boxes:
1. was designed to explicitly eliminate the creaky sounds
2. NO ridiculous driveside retaining clip. Matter of fact, the C-Bear install completely eliminates Campy crank dust shields and a drive side crank bearing retaining clip
3. tougher non-drive side wavy washer
4. super-smooth ceramic bearings to replace Campy ones
5. did I mention price of 98,00 €? 3 times less expensive than massively overpriced CeramicSpeed
6. Made in Belguim
7. Used by many pro teams including Lotto squad
8. Unbelievably fast and helpful tech support
9. comes in black of green anodized finish
10. no proprietary technology - the cups go in using regular tools like Wheels Mfg press
Pix show it on my C60 - sweeeeeet!
I have about a 1k miles on this BB solution and I can't believe the silence!
BTW - I've zero affiliation with C-Bear except I am now a firm convert to their solutions. Will be ordering pulley wheels and more BB cups for my other bikes
Cheers!
After going mad for a looong time with the underdeveloped Campy pressfit BB cups' solution, I am happy to report that there is now a perfect option for the creaky Campy BB cups.
C-Bear!!!
https://www.c-bear.com/en/products/bott ... rifgeR8AsM
This ticks all the boxes:
1. was designed to explicitly eliminate the creaky sounds
2. NO ridiculous driveside retaining clip. Matter of fact, the C-Bear install completely eliminates Campy crank dust shields and a drive side crank bearing retaining clip
3. tougher non-drive side wavy washer
4. super-smooth ceramic bearings to replace Campy ones
5. did I mention price of 98,00 €? 3 times less expensive than massively overpriced CeramicSpeed
6. Made in Belguim
7. Used by many pro teams including Lotto squad
8. Unbelievably fast and helpful tech support
9. comes in black of green anodized finish
10. no proprietary technology - the cups go in using regular tools like Wheels Mfg press
Pix show it on my C60 - sweeeeeet!
I have about a 1k miles on this BB solution and I can't believe the silence!
BTW - I've zero affiliation with C-Bear except I am now a firm convert to their solutions. Will be ordering pulley wheels and more BB cups for my other bikes
Cheers!
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