Campag Super Record rear derailleur shifting woes

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Calnago
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by Calnago

I would love that. And yes, I love to “fettle” with things that bike shops can’t seem to figure out. PM coming your way and I will post what, if anything, I can ascertain in the autopsy results.
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by Weenie


lone wheeler
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by lone wheeler

Cheers, sent you a reply.

campagowlo
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by campagowlo

I had this issue once and I thought it was the mech cage not moving far enough despite settiing limit screws at the furthest range. It ended up being worn, loose, jockey wheels.

lone wheeler
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by lone wheeler

There's a definate clicking thats stopping it moving freely, everything else is fine.

nd2rc
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by nd2rc

I've had zero issues with my 2015 Chorus. love the function and look! It's performed well in all weather conditions too. By chance is the design susceptible to grit? Really interested to hear what you find out Calnago

campagowlo
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by campagowlo

That is annoying for you! Ive found Campag kit to be very reliable over the years, with very few if any issues. Im sure Calnago will diagnose the issue.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Play or stiff joints can have this affect.

An issue with spring mount or something trapped in the spring maybe the cause.

The fact that it was working fine before you went on holiday is not relevant. It's not working now that is.

Mr gib. Shimano kit has it problems too. No brand is immune from issues.

Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

bm0p700f wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:58 pm
Play or stiff joints can have this affect.
Keep in mind that the two cases I am familiar with involved new rear derailleurs. Mine had just a few rides on it, never rain or even dust.
bm0p700f wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:58 pm
Mr gib. Shimano kit has it problems too. No brand is immune from issues.
Yup, why after all these years are Shimano mechanical shifters still sawing the heads of shifter cables? Inexcusable.

Don't assume I have an ownership bias. I have groups from all three manufacturers and ride them all - a lot. If I wanted just one brand I would switch everything to that. I prefer the variety.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

lone wheeler wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:34 am
Quick question and I probably won't go down this route but would a 11sp speed Potenza rear mech work with the 11sp Chorus shifters? The shifters are around 3 years old.
2 things -

1. Campagnolo don't recommend Potenza RD with Chorus and up shifters - written about that on many, many threads here & elsewhere. Sometimes it works fine, sometimes it works but is flaky, sometimes it doesn't work at all - it all depends on how clean (in every sense of the word) the cable run is and how convoluted, alongside of the wear and tear in the system as a whole, as it's related to the return spring tension in the derailleur and how that is partially responsible for driving the internal of the lever.

In Potenza, the RD should pull back around 850-900g at the lever, in Chorus and up, 1kg or more.
If there's not enough "pull back" the CH and up Ergolevers don't return as they should, so return from the built-in overshift when going from smaller sprockets to larger doesn't happen and you nd up with innacurate shifting. The shift can't be accurately dialled in, in both directions, or, in cases where it can, it's flaky and requires relatively frequent adjustment - until you get to a point where it can't be adjusted any longer to work well both ways.

Generally in Campag systems, if cable fluidity is right and you have a properly compatible system all the way through, there is a "sweet spot" where cable tension and return spring tension are accurately balanced. The adjuster can be more-or-less 1/2 a turn "out" in either direction and indexing will still be acceptable. In cases where Potenza RDs are set up and work on a CH, RE or SR lever, this tolerance will fall to 1/4 turn or less.

2. More germain to the issue. There is a very rare problem that we see in some early-to mid production Embrace (Potenza and up, 2015 and later) RDs, where the Embrace gear can stick. All the Campagnolo SCs are aware of it (SCs that is, not necessarily retailers). The problem is now well and truly fixed but there may still be one or two gears out there that have the problem. The symptom is exactly as you describe it - the gear will, even with no cable attached, not transit smoothly acrosss the full stroke but has one or more "catches" in the stroke.

The fix is a new gear and unless the gear has been subject to impact or other abuse, would generally be viewed as a warranty issue. Since the SCs are aware of it, there should be no delay in warranty from the SC, provided that all the warranty rules (within three years of date of retail purchase, proof of purchase from a legitimate retailer supplied, not ex-team or ex-demo material, used with all correctly-specified Campagnolo equipment, no indication of abuse or crash damage ...) are complied with.

Caveat - I have not seen this RD and would need to do so, to give absolute advice. The same is true of the SC - they cannot authorise warranty without physically seeing the affected item.

If you are in the UK, please contact me at Velotech Cycling Ltd.
If elsewhere, please contact the SC in your market - details at www.campagnolo.com under "Support">"Service Center"
The Campagnolo warranty is worldwide so your local Service Centre will support you, even if the goods were purchased outside your local market.
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC

graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

Mr.Gib wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:29 am
lone wheeler wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:08 am
Cable and shifter are both A1.

The rear mech does not move freely when everything is disconnected. Feels like something is catching inside the mech on about the third shift upwards. Very strange.
lone wheeler, I have had this same problem, and so has a buddy of mine, and in both cases the RD was never left in a big cog. Mine was with 2017 Record, my buddy's with 2017 Super Record. Both happened mid ride. The RD just stopped moving to the smaller cogs. I was so pissed off that I dumped the bike at the LBS that sold me the group. When I picked the bike up I was told it was an easy fix. Something do do with the cage or H screw or B screw. The mechanic wasn't in so I couldn't get an accurate explanation. I saw the mechanic two weeks later and he couldn't remember what he did. The whole thing just seems so eff'd up. I am not a happy Campy customer. LBS let me down also.

IMO post 2015 11 speed Campy is over-engineered and contains a flaw in the design that prevents it the RD from indexing perfectly with certain cassettes on certain bikes. It just doesn't tolerate a range of settings well. Add in this mysterious jamming of the RD and it's two thumbs down from me for now (pun intended). I remain hopeful that I can get it perfect. Still it's noisy compared to Shimano and Sram, and bad shifter ergonomics. Now starting to wonder about chain length, maybe a link longer might help the shifting...and so it continues....
If the kit is set up right in the first place, there is no "flaw" unless there is a specific materials or workmanship problem, in which case it's a matter for contact with your local Service Centre, either direct or through a competent, trained, retailer.

In 99% of cases, depending on the exact design of the rear hanger (if it's within Campag spec it's very, very, very seldom, if ever, an issue), the B-Screw on a 2015 or later RD doesn't need moving from the position it is supplied in, out of the box, since that will correctly tension the upper pivot spring relative to any setting on the lower (acheived through the H Screw).

The B Screw is supplied to enable a competent mechanic to compensate for an out-of spec rear hanger where the spring tension generated by the upper spring is insufficient for the H-Screw to allow correct adjustment. In effect, it's the same as having a different initial "hook" position and a longer B-Screw on Shimano, or a much longer H-Screw ratchet on Campagnolo.

If the RD will go to the biggest sprocket but won't come back down and the H-Screw is the culprit, that is a set up issue, nothing to do with the derailleur design per se.
Typical causes are -
Poor initial set up.
User swaps to a wider-ratio cassette and fails to change H Screw setting
User swaps chainrings for smaller and fails to correct chain length and H Screw setting

If the chain length is set as per the manual - don't go messing about with it. When set correctly, it will allow you, providing you don't change chainrings, so use the full compatible range of cassettes with the RD it is set with, with no further changes other than correct adjustment of the H Screw.

99.9% of the "issues" I see, am told about, read about or am asked to fix or comment on have one cause - poor assembly or set up, or poor maintenance.
Less than a tenth of 1 percent have anything to do with a fault of the materials. Some readers may find that uncomfortable reading, but it's true. This is the reason that when someone like Calnago sends me a PM with a problem, I sit up and take notice - because he takes all the right steps, reads and understands the technical literature and applies it correctly - could be, that's why he also never has the "issues" that seem to plague so many others ...

And as most of you know, I also work, a lot, on medium to high end Shimano and SRAM as well as Campag - and you know what - on a straight case by case analysis, I don't find a statistically significant difference in issues between the three big brands.
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC

lone wheeler
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by lone wheeler

Great reply, thank you. I've never mixed groups, ie. Potenza with Chorus etc, it was just a question. I've already ordered a new Chorus rear mech to replace the one that's now not playing ball. I also have an SR group on my C60 and a Record group on another bike.

I can't send the current one in as a warranty issue for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I can't for the life of me find the receipt / proof of purchase and I also think it may be just out of the 3 year warranty period, just.

Secondly, there is no SC here in the UAE as far as i'm aware. I bought the groupset from Bike24.com from memory as it's half the price of the shops here and I also have the tax removed which makes it even better. When I lived in the UK, I supported the LBS and even rode for them so yes, i do support local when able.

Thirdly, I had a small spill on this particlar bike about two years ago and the mech shows small abrasions. I've used the bike since the spill over two years ago and the mech has always been fine so i know it's not the small knock that's affected it otherwie i'm sure it would have been an issue before now.

It's no big deal, just a little perplexing, frustrating and a litlle costly but not the end of the world.

Hopefully Cal can have a mess about with it once the replacement arrives.

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