Campag Super Record rear derailleur shifting woes

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c60rider
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by c60rider

This is my own personal thread about this topic as I don't want it to get lost amongst the other thread that Calnago started regarding his and anyone that chimes in seems to have a different issue. The two other threads I've come across are this one https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 3&t=138342 and this one https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... ge&start=0

It's a mechanical post 2015 rear mech fitted new 15 months ago to a C60. I've never been overly happy with the performance and took a few weeks to get it to be working as best as I could. It shifts up and down sprockets perfectly but was always a bit noisy around the jockey wheel area as though it wasn't quite correctly lined up. My feeling was the jockey wheel cage plate was a bit angled inwards towards the spokes but it was working though the worst sounding of my 3 bikes at that time. The other two were 2009 Super Record and 2011 Record. The bike was put away for the winter in September and it's been a very long winter in the UK with the weather only finally coming out of winter in April. The bike was kept indoors in a spare bedroom and had been washed and lubricated prior to that. All I did was wash and lubricate the bike again and put a quick spanner on all bolts and obviously nothing had moved. First ride out and small chainring/largest sprocket and the inner cage plate was notably catching the spokes. So much so I had to drop it to the next sprocket. It took me a couple of weeks of faffing around with it to get rid of that and still be able to change but clearly something was seriously out. I've done all the things mentioned in the above threads, yes the gear hanger was out a fraction and it's been checked not just vertical/horizontal planes but all round the whole wheel. There's nothing wrong with cabling as it shifts up and down with one click with no mis-shifts at all. It's just noisy. And here is my investigation and discovery....

Ok so this picture is small chainring/middle sprocket. I've taken the shot with the chain completely in line above and below the chainstay and you can notice a considerable drift inwards of the jockey cage

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I've just pivoted the rear gear back on this which emphasizes the twist even more

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This one is my 2009 Super Record and you can see how straight it all lines up. And yes this is perfect in function with just that nice ticking noise of the chain gliding through the drivetrain

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The other thing to show is where the chain actually engages with the lower jockey wheel. You can see it's engaging on the outer part of the chain rather than the roller itself:

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And this image

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Whereas the 2009 Super Record engages nicely in the middle of the roller

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I thought that was it really and reading through the above threads Graeme's advice was to contact the retailer and go from there. Fortunately I purchased mine from Wiggle and they have excellent customer service. So rather destroy a chain I removed the jockey wheels to get the mech off and leave the chain in place. This was where it got a bit more interesting! You can see from the two images below that the carbon jockey cage is actually distorted in both the horizontal and vertical planes. It does feel very soft and flimsy but I haven't took 2009 SRecord or 2011 Record ones apart to compare.

This image I've lined the top part vertical.

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This one I've lined the bottom part vertically.

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And putting the jockey wheels back results in this mess! :unbelievable:

Top jockey wheel lined up vertical and you can see which direction the lower one is going and how that actually lines up fairly parallel to the mech body!

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And now bottom one lined up vertical shows where the upper one is heading in comparison!

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So all in all it's an extremely angry drivetrain in action and even spinning the cranks backwards sounds like a crowd of people grinding their teeth and it's no surprise why the chain having to fight its way through that. I've no idea what's gone on with it :noidea: . It's never been bashed, crashed or mishandled, hey it's my baby C60 and I keep it in the lounge in the summer and the bedroom in winter!! It's now gone back to Wiggle and will take 72 hours to get there so I'll report back further once I hear anything. :beerchug:

Attermann
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by Attermann

You Can actually just twist the lower part, I did that to mine

by Weenie


Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

Good detective work and excellent detailed post with perfect photos. Now WTF is up with Campy? I am in the process of figuring out why a perfectly tuned Record drive train is undershifting in the middle of the cassette and overshifting on the big cogs. Pisses me off. If it weren't for the fact that it was on a Colnago and so damn beautiful, I would have replaced it with Sram Red ages ago.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

beanbiken
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by beanbiken

This appears to be the same as the RD [plain record] that I have on my Pina. Me being a Campy novice I've just put up with it. I will be very interested in your outcome. I not sure if the Austrailain Campy people will deal with mine or if I'll need to send it back to the UK........ which will be a PIA.

BB
Ahhh, coffee & carbon

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Kimmoth
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by Kimmoth

This is a known manufacturing flaw, I believe. You should be able to get a warranty replacement.

cmcdonnell
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by cmcdonnell

Looks exactly like mine just with better pictures and a more technical description. Can anyone reccommend anyone to speak to in the UK? I got mine from Shinybikes and they don't exist anymore and live in Norfolk where there are not any Campy shops.
Bianchi Oltre XR2 + Campagnolo Super Record 11 + Campagnolo Bora 50C
Litespeed T1 + Campagnolo Chorus 11 + Campagnolo Shamal Ultra

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Calnago
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by Calnago

For those of you with more than one setup, where one works and the other doesn’t, if you have some mechanical ability a good way to troubleshoot the issue is to swap just the cages between the bikes. If it’s the cage, the issue will follow it.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

wilwil
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by wilwil

Had the same problem with Record. My SR is off the bike at the moment (second cracked C60) and looks similar to yours. It never worked that well.
I also run two lots of 2009-2010 Record on other bikes with no issues.
Think it may be time to move away from anything Italian. Regretably

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

I'm in suffolk. We let norfolk folk in without a passport. I am off to a campag 12 speed day on the 19th June. I can take your RD with me and see what the service centre says if its faulty but I have compared to mine and called the service centre. The cages are made this way. the bottom jockey wheel is meant to be twisted with respect to the top. It apparantly improve the range of gears that can be used in one ring which makes sense actually 1.e big big with less noise.

So this maybe a case of attributing a problem to thw rong thing but assuming. On my damaged look I had shifting issues but I also know the mech hnager is out of whack. not buy much but enough. I would not assume anything. the mis shifting is most likely down to something else.

Again I would be happy as a campag friendly shop to look at this but the cause will be (most likely) something overlooked.
Last edited by bm0p700f on Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

There is a slight “twist” in the cage by design, making it really really difficult to tell if it’s too much or not by looking at it. For instance, I can’t necessarily tell from the pics above if anything is truly amiss. I compared my cages side by side , piece by piece, on perfectly flat surfaces, and still couldn’t say for sure what the problem was. But there was one. While I could have gotten a new derailleur, I asked if they’d just send me the chorus cage they had in stock instead, because I was sure that’s where the problem lied. And it was. Replaced the cage and it was perfect.
Trouble with rare issues like this posted on the internet, is that when someone can’t get their drivetrain properly setup and they see this, then they jump to thinking that “must” be the issue. Not saying that’s the case here, but it is a pretty rare issue.
And @cmcdonnel... you mentioned you haven’t even checked your hanger for alignment with a proper alignment tool. That should be your very first step.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

wilwil
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by wilwil

So when you put the carbon cage plate face down on a flat surface it should rock across a diagonal axis? This is not a fault? Is the Chorus cage metal rather than carbon and did that have a twist in it?

cmcdonnell
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by cmcdonnell

Calnago, the problem is I don;t have a tool or the ability to use it if I bought one. Need to find a LBS
Bianchi Oltre XR2 + Campagnolo Super Record 11 + Campagnolo Bora 50C
Litespeed T1 + Campagnolo Chorus 11 + Campagnolo Shamal Ultra

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Ok, I understand that, I'm just saying before you start thinking the problem is some very rare issue, you might want to rule out the most common causes first.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Come to Suffolk then. It should not be too hard to find where I am. However the hanger tool is not so good at spotting twist. Sometimes it is easier if misalignment is found just to replace the hanger rather than try to make it good again.

by Weenie


c60rider
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by c60rider

When I get a chance at the weekend I'll pull apart the 2009 SR mech on my other bike that's working perfectly and also lined up perfectly straight and put it on the C60 and see how it compares. That will satisfy my own curiosity that there is something wrong with the mech.

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