Ultegra r8050 noise, cage bent?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
bikeguy0
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:01 am

by bikeguy0

Anyone with a Ultegra Di2 R8050 SS rear derailluer can you post some pics of your cage from the rear? See the pics attached. This drivetrain is the loudest of any I've ever had including, SRAM Force, RED, XTR Di2, XX1. It looks to me like the rear cage is possibly bent but I can't tell unless I compare it to another bike.

BTW the hanger is perfectly straight measured with the Park Tool and this is a brand new bike that has never been dropped. I didn't see any issues with it when I received it from Canyon so just trying to troubleshoot. I can go about 2 rides after cleaning and re-lubing before it sounds terrible again.
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by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1867
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

We have basically no frame of reference. If you really want help, it would be best to take a wider photo from behind. Show the two pulleys and the cassette because that's what you want to line up as much as possible. At the very least the top pulley and cogs should be in line while sometimes the bottom pulley will be ever so slightly slanted. When you take the photo, position your camera so that your cage appears as narrow as possible (to ensure it's a straight-on view.)

Also take the chain off if possible.

bikeguy0
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:01 am

by bikeguy0

TobinHatesYou wrote:We have basically no frame of reference. If you really want help, it would be best to take a wider photo from behind. Show the two pulleys and the cassette because that's what you want to line up as much as possible. At the very least the top pulley and cogs should be in line while sometimes the bottom pulley will be ever so slightly slanted. When you take the photo, position your camera so that your cage appears as narrow as possible (to ensure it's a straight-on view.)

Also take the chain off if possible.
Thanks and I may do this but my first step is to compare it to someone else’s cage. It looks bent where these arrows are but I won’t know for sure unless I see another Derailluer. There aren’t any issues with the top pulley alignment.
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zefs
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

Are you sure your gears are indexed? It's normal that there is a bend by design of the derailleur.
What gear are you using for the photo?

bikeguy0
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:01 am

by bikeguy0

Yep it is indexed correctly. It is in the big ring in the front and about the middle of the cassette on the back. Not sure. Just as background I mechanic on multiple people's bikes that race in the open/pro categories and know my way around building and setting up these bikes up.

Really I'm just trying to get a photo from behind of someone else's derailluer to confirm if that cage is bent. Some RD's have a slight angle to them on the cage but this one looks fairly far off. I just can't find any photo's online to confirm and don't want to have to drive 50 miles to Boulder to check one out at Excel Sports.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1867
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Big ring + middle of cassette is still a chainline that tails out, so there is naturally going to be some tension pulling outward on the cage. In your case it does look a little extreme, but we still haven’t gotten a wider view and there maybe lens distortion.
Last edited by TobinHatesYou on Thu May 31, 2018 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

zefs
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

My R8000 has an angle as well, have you checked if the 2 small derailleur hanger bolts are tight? although you mentioned the noise goes off after relubing which is weird.

bikeguy0
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:01 am

by bikeguy0

Thx for the responses. I checked a mechanical version yesterday at a local shop and it had the same kink in the cage exactly where the red arrows are. The mechanic also mentioned that he noticed the new group is loud as well. I guess I’ll just have to deal with it or maybe try different pulley wheels as I think that might be the culprit.


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marek
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:53 am

by marek

I'm using Dura-Ace R9150 and it is also noisier than previous generation R9070.

I've tried everything: adjustments, longer chains, shorter chains, different cassette, change of cage tension. No satisfying result.

I've also added OSPW ceramic speed cage (big jockey wheels). Noise is the same.

The only came after adjusting of B-bolt - placing the upper jockey slightly more away from casette helped. But keep in mind that bigger distance slightly compromises shifting speed.

So I guess new design is simply louder... :(

zmjones
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:55 am
Contact:

by zmjones

marek wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:06 pm
I'm using Dura-Ace R9150 and it is also noisier than previous generation R9070.

I've tried everything: adjustments, longer chains, shorter chains, different cassette, change of cage tension. No satisfying result.

I've also added OSPW ceramic speed cage (big jockey wheels). Noise is the same.

The only came after adjusting of B-bolt - placing the upper jockey slightly more away from casette helped. But keep in mind that bigger distance slightly compromises shifting speed.

So I guess new design is simply louder... :(
i know the chainrings are spaced a bit wider. maybe that is why?

bikeguy0
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:01 am

by bikeguy0

marek wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:06 pm
I'm using Dura-Ace R9150 and it is also noisier than previous generation R9070.

I've tried everything: adjustments, longer chains, shorter chains, different cassette, change of cage tension. No satisfying result.

I've also added OSPW ceramic speed cage (big jockey wheels). Noise is the same.

The only came after adjusting of B-bolt - placing the upper jockey slightly more away from casette helped. But keep in mind that bigger distance slightly compromises shifting speed.

So I guess new design is simply louder... :(
So even the new jockey wheels didn't make a change? That is interesting. The design of the upper pulley has longer teeth than the lower so I was going to try some KCNC 11T wheels on the top to see if that made a difference. The noise is definitely from the RD and the chain meshing with the pulley is what it sounds like to me. Problem is that same design is on the XTR Di2 as well and I have no problem with it on my CX bike on multiple different cassettes.

Frankly it is totally unacceptable to me and I can't believe Shimano is okay with this. I bough it with my canyon but I didn't spend $4500 on a Di2 bike to have it sound like a rattle trap 1 ride after lubing the chain.

pdlpsher1
Posts: 1715
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

I have both the 8000 GS and the 8050 GS RDs. The cage has a complex shape to it and the thickness of the cage plate varies dramatically. I think it’s done by design in order to increase the stiffness of the cage. I took these pics today.

Image

Image


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bikeguy0
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:01 am

by bikeguy0

pdlpsher1 wrote:I have both the 8000 GS and the 8050 GS RDs. The cage has a complex shape to it and the thickness of the cage plate varies dramatically. I think it’s done by design in order to increase the stiffness of the cage. I took these pics today.

Image

Image


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Thx. Is your group noisy as well?


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pdlpsher1
Posts: 1715
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

I can say that some gears are louder than other. However I don't find the loudest gear to be louder than my previous Shimano setups. I hope this helps.

by Weenie


ThunderJack07
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:31 pm
Location: Belgium

by ThunderJack07

Hey, I'm facing the same issue on my BMC Teammachine SLR01 with ultegra 8050. I find the transmission to be very noisy, especially in the big ring and can almost feel the bad meshing in the pedals and my feet in high gears.. I changed chain and cassette ==> same issue, I checked derailleur hanger alignement with my alignement tool ==> same issue, tried a different wheel ==> same issue. It is already bad when i am indexing the gears using di2's micro adjustment on big ring and 5th sprocket (standard di2 indexing procedure) and I can tune the micro adjustment one way or the other, it doesn't solve the issue. Then I also noticed that my cage seemed bent but from what I see on the pictures posted here, it seems to be "by design". Really annoying to me.. my brother as a Scott Solace in 105 that is quieter and feels smoother than my brand new ultegra di2 setup... I also considered chain line but it seems very unlikely.. Anyway, I'm out of ideas to solve this, so if anyone faced similar behaviour and managed to solve it, I'm all ears.

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