Help me decide - Giant TCR Advanced 2 vs. Advanced Pro 0 Disc

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
LiquidCooled
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:46 am

by LiquidCooled

I agree that the difference in feel of Ultegra vs 105 would be hard to detect when both are mechanical, but DI2 Ultegra vs mech 105 is completely different. I'm sure that's a huge part of the price differential between the bikes, too.

I also agree about the price creep issue and how the APD is nicer but not faster than an upgraded (but still much cheaper) A2.
2017 Giant TCR Advanced Pro 0 Disc
2003 Cannondale R1000 (CAAD7)

amngwlvs
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:45 pm

by amngwlvs

LiquidCooled wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:56 pm
I don't think it's really fair to compare the two bikes you're comparing on only their weights and saying the rim brake bike is better for half the cost. It's probably better to compare the rim brake bike with the disc bike that is closest in spec: the TCR Advanced 2 Disc (https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/tcr-advanced-2-disc). That bike is £300 more than the rim bike you're looking at and, apart from the disc vs rim differences, has the same level of groupset, wheels, frame, and fork.

Before I bought my 2017 TCR APD, I rented a 2017 TCR Advanced 2 (rim) for 4 days. So basically the 2017 versions of the bikes you originally posted about. I rented the rim version just to see how I liked the frame, geometry, etc. Then I bought the APD a month later. For me, the APD felt loads better. Some of that was due to the better stock wheels (which you are adressing), some was due to the better brake feel (but you seem perfectly content with rim brakes, so that's not an issue), some is due to the Ultegra DI2 vs mechanical 105 (for me that was HUGE, but only you can decide for yourself), and some was perhaps due to the other upgraded parts (stem, bars, carbon steerer, etc).

If all one cares about is light weight and 105, then the A2 is a no-brainer. Some of us want other things which more than justify the extra cost of the APD. I would never have bought the A2 as an upgrade to my Cannondale CAAD7 (with Ultegra 6800 group).
Definitely agree. Moving to a TCR Advanced 2 from a Propel Advanced 2 offered me no upgrade so I too had no issue justifying the added expense to get my (attainable) dream bike.
devonbiker wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:39 pm
It's easy to get dragged into price creep in the cycling world. You have to ask yourself if spending 40% more on a bike is going to provide you with cost effective benefit. In this case the extra 40% is not going to get you a faster bike. It just makes things "nicer".
No it definitely won't make it faster but for many it's worth the upgrade. Take a cars base model vs sport, tech, etc models - I'm sure most manufacturers sell far more "loaded" models than they do base models. Not because the base models aren't of the same quality but because they offer the consumer the ability to upgrade to get the performance and specs they prefer.
LiquidCooled wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:12 pm
I agree that the difference in feel of Ultegra vs 105 would be hard to detect when both are mechanical, but DI2 Ultegra vs mech 105 is completely different. I'm sure that's a huge part of the price differential between the bikes, too.

I also agree about the price creep issue and how the APD is nicer but not faster than an upgraded (but still much cheaper) A2.
Absolutely that's a big part of the price difference. In Canada the AP1 (Ultegra Mech) is $3999 and the AP0 (Di2) is $5399 on otherwise identical bikes.
2018 Giant TCR Advanced Pro 0 Disc
2015 Giant Propel Advanced 2
2013 Trek 520

by Weenie


Noctiluxx
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:17 pm
Location: Southern California

by Noctiluxx

My buddy just ordered the TCR Advanced Pro 2019 in Team Sunweb colors. Love the look. Wish it was an SL version though.
2018 Bianchi Oltre XR4, (Celeste Matt)
2018 De Rosa SK Pininfarina (Blu)
2017 Giant TCR Advanced SL (Red)
2016 Specialized Allez DSW Sprint (Gold)
2016 Giant Anthem Advanced SX (FS)
2018 Trek Farley EX 9.8 Fatty (FS)

amngwlvs
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:45 pm

by amngwlvs

Noctiluxx wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:44 pm
My buddy just ordered the TCR Advanced Pro 2019 in Team Sunweb colors. Love the look. Wish it was an SL version though.
I dig the look too, especially with the 42mm wheels instead of the 30's, but with rumours of Sunweb switching to Cervelo next season that could feel a bit awkward riding a brand new 2019 model when the team doesn't even ride Giant anymore... :noidea:
2018 Giant TCR Advanced Pro 0 Disc
2015 Giant Propel Advanced 2
2013 Trek 520

devonbiker
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 1:26 pm

by devonbiker

Noctiluxx wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:44 pm
My buddy just ordered the TCR Advanced Pro 2019 in Team Sunweb colors. Love the look. Wish it was an SL version though.
I think it looks great too but I’m not keen on the references to Sunweb as the association will be short lived. Do you prefer this design to the AP1?

Still undecided on the gloss vs matt finishes. I like the glossy red and black of the AP1 but the grey fork just looks a bit odd. I also feel like that paint could be a scratch magnet?

I’m a bit hesitant to pay big bucks for £2000+ bikes right now when you know that 2019 models are only 3 months away, unless I can get a discount. It would be annoying to put that cash down now and really like the design of a 2019 model.

MoPho
Posts: 431
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:48 pm
Location: NorCal/SoCal

by MoPho

devonbiker wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 4:42 pm
In this case the extra 40% is not going to get you a faster bike. It just makes things "nicer".
Not everything that makes a bike good to ride has to be about increasing speed. If you're not racing, "nicer" can be more important than "faster" and for some that is well worth the extra 40% or more. I know people on $15k bikes and it sure doesn't make them faster, but those bikes have intangible qualities that make them better and worth the extra money to some.

As others have noted, much of that additional cost is in the Ultegra Di2 which in my opinion brings far more joy than saving what really amounts to not that much weight, it's pretty awesome.
And I do a lot of fast technical descending, I very much appreciate the disc brakes, even in the dry they are better. In fact I rode a rim brake bike down a 5 mile descent just last night for the first time in a long time, and while I was certainly able to get down just fine and still pretty fast, they were really disappointing after being on disc for so long. The feel alone is worth it to me to be on discs.

And much of the additional weight of the disc wheel is centered around the hub, so the rotational difference between how the wheels feel may not be as much as you think

Now of course a light bike can feel more lively and that can also bring joy, but that would take a heck of a lot more weight savings than what you're talking about.
but thinking about it you spend far more time climbing than descending,
By that metric you're better off buying some aero wheels than lighter wheels since the most time will be spent on flats or rollers.
and if you save a few minues on a hill climb with the same effort then you are saving energy for later in the ride.
If the effort is the same you're not saving energy only time. Also the small amount of weight difference you are talking about is only going to save you a few seconds, if that ( BTW I've become faster climbing on my "heavier" disc bike than my previous rim brake bike ).
Besides, if you're not racing, the only time that you need to beat is your previous best, the bike weight is irrelevant. Buying speed doesn't improve your fitness. You want to be faster, ride more, ride harder/smarter, lose some weight on your body. Don't fool yourself that saving a mere 300g or so on your bike is what you need to be faster.
I'd be more interested to hear opinions on the gloss paint job vs matt paint job as the frames on the bikes are identical so I could potentially upgrade components over time. The simple matt red/orange looks really cool but the glossy red/orange/chrome also looks cool but is a lot more 'flashy' looking. Not sure which will show up scratches the least?
In my experience matte paint tends to be more chip and scratch resistant than glossy, but harder to fix if you do get a scratch. Glossy paint you can buff out light scratches. That said, 11k miles on my matte finish TCR disc and no scratches or chips


In the end it is your money, saving is good, and as long as your happy with your choice and you enjoy it, that's all that matters




.

devonbiker
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 1:26 pm

by devonbiker

So to update, based on what has been said on this thread I managed to swap the Advanced 2 for an Advanced Pro 1 (rim) and took the wheels back to the shop. I decided, on balance, that the Advanced Pro 1 is a much better bike with full Ultegra groupset, carbon steerer, upgraded stem and handlebar, and I would be kicking myself in 6 months time for not paying the extra. I'll be keeping the SLR wheels on the bike.

It looks super nice with the jet black frame with glossy red down tube. Very happy with it and I haven't even ridden it yet. I'm sure it will be fantastic.

By the way, if anyone is interested, I weighed the front SLR non-disc wheel (without skewer) and it was 1038 grams vs. 1255 grams for the SLR disc (without bolt but WITH rotor, which weighs 106g). So that places it between the Mavic Ksyrium Pro (864g) and SLR Disc.

amngwlvs
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:45 pm

by amngwlvs

devonbiker wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:48 pm
So to update, based on what has been said on this thread I managed to swap the Advanced 2 for an Advanced Pro 1 (rim) and took the wheels back to the shop. I decided, on balance, that the Advanced Pro 1 is a much better bike with full Ultegra groupset, carbon steerer, upgraded stem and handlebar, and I would be kicking myself in 6 months time for not paying the extra. I'll be keeping the SLR wheels on the bike.

It looks super nice with the jet black frame with glossy red down tube. Very happy with it and I haven't even ridden it yet. I'm sure it will be fantastic.

By the way, if anyone is interested, I weighed the front SLR non-disc wheel (without skewer) and it was 1038 grams vs. 1255 grams for the SLR disc (without bolt but WITH rotor, which weighs 106g). So that places it between the Mavic Ksyrium Pro (864g) and SLR Disc.
Congrats man, nice looking bike online! I think that was definitely a smart choice to upgrade and I do think you'd have ended up kicking yourself just going with the Advanced 2. At least now you'll never be limited by the steerer and it will be open season as far as upgrading anytime. Enjoy the new ride!
2018 Giant TCR Advanced Pro 0 Disc
2015 Giant Propel Advanced 2
2013 Trek 520

devonbiker
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 1:26 pm

by devonbiker

amngwlvs wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:12 pm
devonbiker wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:48 pm
So to update, based on what has been said on this thread I managed to swap the Advanced 2 for an Advanced Pro 1 (rim) and took the wheels back to the shop. I decided, on balance, that the Advanced Pro 1 is a much better bike with full Ultegra groupset, carbon steerer, upgraded stem and handlebar, and I would be kicking myself in 6 months time for not paying the extra. I'll be keeping the SLR wheels on the bike.

It looks super nice with the jet black frame with glossy red down tube. Very happy with it and I haven't even ridden it yet. I'm sure it will be fantastic.

By the way, if anyone is interested, I weighed the front SLR non-disc wheel (without skewer) and it was 1038 grams vs. 1255 grams for the SLR disc (without bolt but WITH rotor, which weighs 106g). So that places it between the Mavic Ksyrium Pro (864g) and SLR Disc.
Congrats man, nice looking bike online! I think that was definitely a smart choice to upgrade and I do think you'd have ended up kicking yourself just going with the Advanced 2. At least now you'll never be limited by the steerer and it will be open season as far as upgrading anytime. Enjoy the new ride!
Thanks. Looks similar to yours except the logo is black not chrome, and I think the colour is more red than orange. Just need to get a shorter stem for mine and maybe a pair of gloss black bottle cages, then I'm done :D

https://www.scotthunterphotography.com/TCR/n-SgbhRX/

Out of interest - have you ever weighed your bike?

amngwlvs
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:45 pm

by amngwlvs

devonbiker wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:31 pm
Thanks. Looks similar to yours except the logo is black not chrome, and I think the colour is more red than orange. Just need to get a shorter stem for mine and maybe a pair of gloss black bottle cages, then I'm done :D

https://www.scotthunterphotography.com/TCR/n-SgbhRX/

Out of interest - have you ever weighed your bike?
Saw, those pics in the stem thread - great looking bike!

Only the day I bought it as a full bike with cages and Ultegra pedals - 17.68lbs (8.02kgs) so without the 82g on the two cages and 248g on pedals it would be at 16.96lbs (7.69kgs).

Image
2018 Giant TCR Advanced Pro 0 Disc
2015 Giant Propel Advanced 2
2013 Trek 520

devonbiker
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 1:26 pm

by devonbiker

amngwlvs wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:45 pm
devonbiker wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:31 pm
Thanks. Looks similar to yours except the logo is black not chrome, and I think the colour is more red than orange. Just need to get a shorter stem for mine and maybe a pair of gloss black bottle cages, then I'm done :D

https://www.scotthunterphotography.com/TCR/n-SgbhRX/

Out of interest - have you ever weighed your bike?
Saw, those pics in the stem thread - great looking bike!

Only the day I bought it as a full bike with cages and Ultegra pedals - 17.68lbs (8.02kgs) so without the 82g on the two cages and 248g on pedals it would be at 16.96lbs (7.69kgs).
What size frame?

amngwlvs
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:45 pm

by amngwlvs

devonbiker wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:19 pm
What size frame?
Medium. What did yours weigh?
2018 Giant TCR Advanced Pro 0 Disc
2015 Giant Propel Advanced 2
2013 Trek 520

zmjones
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:55 am
Contact:

by zmjones

amngwlvs wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:58 pm
devonbiker wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:19 pm
What size frame?
Medium. What did yours weigh?
i have a medium 2012 tcr advanced w (non-isp) with no ww parts that weighs 16.75 w/ cages and pedals. just a mixed shimano drivetrain and hed wheels.

devonbiker
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 1:26 pm

by devonbiker

amngwlvs wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:58 pm
devonbiker wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:19 pm
What size frame?
Medium. What did yours weigh?
I believe the medium TCR Advanced Pro (rim) is 7kg according to the website but I haven't weighed mine yet.

by Weenie


devonbiker
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 1:26 pm

by devonbiker

I managed to weigh my bike properly yesterday. The medium/large TCR Advanced Pro 1 (rim brake) on its own is 7.36kg, or 7.72kg with A600 pedals and two bottle cages. I know the weight difference between frame sizes is quite significant, probably a few hundred grams, so it's not comparable with a medium.
Last edited by devonbiker on Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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