S-Works Venge 2019

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Slack
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:37 pm

by Slack



Btw, I see that the Roval CL/CLX disc are only 21 spokes in the front, while most other disc wheels are 24, I wonder if it can contribute to brake rubbing.
Honestly, have you actually read any of the previous posts? Spoke count has nothing to do with brakes rubbing in a disc setup.

by Weenie


Nefarious86
Moderator
Posts: 2565
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 4:57 am
Contact:

by Nefarious86

Less spokes would in theory make a wheel with more flex, brake rub on a disk bike is a product of hub/dropout interface. A "softer" wheel would put less force on this interface and have absolutely 0 impact on brake rub.
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Discodan
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:55 am

by Discodan

bikeboy1tr wrote:I had this on issue on my CX bike and decided to set up the calipers so they would float thus eliminating the problem. Offroad motos have had this setup for years and I cant understand why this is not used in the bicycle industry. Fixed calipers just dont work so well.
Off-road motos use floating calipers when they only have pistons on one side as compared to opposing pistons which don’t require floating calipers. You only see this on bikes that are cheap or don’t need good braking power (off-road, commuters, low capacity)

Any moto with real braking needs has opposing pistons, like bicycle hydro brakes, and has fixed calipers. I don’t think sliding bicycle calipers are the answer


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LBoogie28
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:17 am

by LBoogie28

iwheel wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:11 am
I also noticed on the bike I rode that the logos are merely decals. The ones on the chains tat had scored from heel rub and the some of the small ones on the fork had come off.
I have seen both the tarmac pro and the venge pro in person and don’t recall the lettering being a simple sticker. Would be disappointing for sure. There are a couple of posters who have bought the venge pro already, so maybe they can speak to it better.

bikeboy1tr
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:19 am
Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

Discodan wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:43 pm
bikeboy1tr wrote:I had this on issue on my CX bike and decided to set up the calipers so they would float thus eliminating the problem. Offroad motos have had this setup for years and I cant understand why this is not used in the bicycle industry. Fixed calipers just dont work so well.
Off-road motos use floating calipers when they only have pistons on one side as compared to opposing pistons which don’t require floating calipers. You only see this on bikes that are cheap or don’t need good braking power (off-road, commuters, low capacity)

Any moto with real braking needs has opposing pistons, like bicycle hydro brakes, and has fixed calipers. I don’t think sliding bicycle calipers are the answer


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Brembo who produce braking systems for high end anything use double pistons on one side from what I can see.
" Brembo produces floating dual piston front calipers and fixed discs" http://www.brembo.com/en/bike/original- ... ts/offroad
Anyway the point is, this is the fix that worked for me. Mine was rubbing when cornering hard in the seated position. Many people may not be comfortable making these mods especially on something that is new. This is just MOFWIW.
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"-Albert Einstein
2018 Colnago V2R Rim Brake
2014 Norco Threshold Disc Brake
2012 Time RXRS Ulteam Rim Brake
2008 Time VXR Rim Brake
2006 Ridley Crosswind Rim Brake

ryanw
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:52 pm
Location: London

by ryanw

wingguy wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:16 pm
ryanw wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:04 am
Nefarious86 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:56 am
Rims and frames flex, hubs dont.
This.

The wheels have probably been built by some numpty, like the one who built my Enve 4.5s.

Once I had a proper wheel builder lace / tension them correctly, it was like owning a new set of wheels.
Relacing or tensioning the wheels isn't going to make a blind bit of difference to disc brake rub. That's the point Nefarious is making.


Good job I wasn’t referring to disc brake rub then.
'16 Cervelo S5 - 6650g
'17 Focus Mares Force 1 - 7,800g

Nefarious86
Moderator
Posts: 2565
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 4:57 am
Contact:

by Nefarious86

ryanw wrote:
wingguy wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:16 pm
ryanw wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:04 am
Nefarious86 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:56 am
Rims and frames flex, hubs dont.
This.

The wheels have probably been built by some numpty, like the one who built my Enve 4.5s.

Once I had a proper wheel builder lace / tension them correctly, it was like owning a new set of wheels.
Relacing or tensioning the wheels isn't going to make a blind bit of difference to disc brake rub. That's the point Nefarious is making.


Good job I wasn’t referring to disc brake rub then.
Yet that's exactly what everyone else is talking about.....
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bikeboy1tr
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:19 am
Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

So the actual problem is having the proper set up of the caliper. Hubs dont flex and with Thru Axles these days it all comes down to caliper set up as long as the disc is straight.
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"-Albert Einstein
2018 Colnago V2R Rim Brake
2014 Norco Threshold Disc Brake
2012 Time RXRS Ulteam Rim Brake
2008 Time VXR Rim Brake
2006 Ridley Crosswind Rim Brake

wingguy
Posts: 4198
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

ryanw wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:19 pm
wingguy wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:16 pm
ryanw wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:04 am
Nefarious86 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:56 am
Rims and frames flex, hubs dont.
This.

The wheels have probably been built by some numpty, like the one who built my Enve 4.5s.

Once I had a proper wheel builder lace / tension them correctly, it was like owning a new set of wheels.
Relacing or tensioning the wheels isn't going to make a blind bit of difference to disc brake rub. That's the point Nefarious is making.
Good job I wasn’t referring to disc brake rub then.
Then what were you talking about? That thread of conversation was entirely and solely about a guy whose disc brakes are rubbing. What did you read that made you think his wheels were built by a numpty?

ryanw
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:52 pm
Location: London

by ryanw

The first thing I said was that I agreed with was that rims and and frames flex, hubs do not.

I then went on to tell how I once had a set of wheels that were built by a cnut and once they were correctly built, they were greatly improved.

Moderator's Edit: That statement is not necessary and offensive.
'16 Cervelo S5 - 6650g
'17 Focus Mares Force 1 - 7,800g

Discodan
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:55 am

by Discodan

bikeboy1tr wrote:
Discodan wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:43 pm
bikeboy1tr wrote:I had this on issue on my CX bike and decided to set up the calipers so they would float thus eliminating the problem. Offroad motos have had this setup for years and I cant understand why this is not used in the bicycle industry. Fixed calipers just dont work so well.
Off-road motos use floating calipers when they only have pistons on one side as compared to opposing pistons which don’t require floating calipers. You only see this on bikes that are cheap or don’t need good braking power (off-road, commuters, low capacity)

Any moto with real braking needs has opposing pistons, like bicycle hydro brakes, and has fixed calipers. I don’t think sliding bicycle calipers are the answer


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Brembo who produce braking systems for high end anything use double pistons on one side from what I can see.
" Brembo produces floating dual piston front calipers and fixed discs" http://www.brembo.com/en/bike/original- ... ts/offroad
Anyway the point is, this is the fix that worked for me. Mine was rubbing when cornering hard in the seated position. Many people may not be comfortable making these mods especially on something that is new. This is just MOFWIW.
Floating is just on off-road, the rest of their range is fixed. I’m curious how you managed to make a bicycle caliper floating, that must have taking some ingenious engineering. Hats off to you if it’s working


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bikeboy1tr
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:19 am
Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

Actually it was relatively easy as the caliper has elongated mounting holes already so I just took a couple grade 8 sockethead capscrews that were a little longer and cut them to length. The longer bolts have a portion of its length under the head that is not threaded which gives a little clearance when the bolt is threaded into the caliper which allows the caliper to move ever so slightly and surprisingly makes very little noise. A little locktite for the threads to ensure they dont back out and we are good to go.
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"-Albert Einstein
2018 Colnago V2R Rim Brake
2014 Norco Threshold Disc Brake
2012 Time RXRS Ulteam Rim Brake
2008 Time VXR Rim Brake
2006 Ridley Crosswind Rim Brake

bikeboy1tr
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:19 am
Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

Oh and Superbike uses floating discs on their machines. Actually my 690 has floating discs as well. It just makes sense to have a little float with all the high forces when cornering on Superbikes or Motogp.
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"-Albert Einstein
2018 Colnago V2R Rim Brake
2014 Norco Threshold Disc Brake
2012 Time RXRS Ulteam Rim Brake
2008 Time VXR Rim Brake
2006 Ridley Crosswind Rim Brake

wingguy
Posts: 4198
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

ryanw wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:26 am
The first thing I said was that I agreed with was that rims and and frames flex, hubs do not.

I then went on to tell how I once had a set of wheels that were built by a cnut and once they were correctly built, they were greatly improved.
You said his wheels were probably built by some numpty. The only thing he complained of was disc brake rub. Disc brake rub has nothing to do with wheel build.

So again, what were you talking about? Why do you think his wheels were probably built by some numpty?

by Weenie


Stitchking
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri May 25, 2018 7:30 am

by Stitchking

bikeboy1tr wrote:Actually it was relatively easy as the caliper has elongated mounting holes already so I just took a couple grade 8 sockethead capscrews that were a little longer and cut them to length. The longer bolts have a portion of its length under the head that is not threaded which gives a little clearance when the bolt is threaded into the caliper which allows the caliper to move ever so slightly and surprisingly makes very little noise. A little locktite for the threads to ensure they dont back out and we are good to go.
So they kinda rub a little bit all the time? But can move with any deformation? I would argue that a correctly set up fixed caliper would be more efficient that this. You can get them to sit with zero rub with a little bit of skill. The only rub i get on my bike is after a long descent for maybe 5 seconds max while the heat in the system dissapates.

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