Rca WW Build.

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
tabl10s
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:40 am

by tabl10s

Delivered the KMX SL11 to the LBS as they didn't carry the brand and a salesman brought the bike out to weigh it. W/O the chain, Jagwire brake housing, Look Ti Keo's and 1.8 Lizardskin, it tips the scales at 10.16lbs(4.808kg).

I'm too old to mess with tubular's and was wondering how much I can save with top caps, expanders, chainring bolts and such.
Last edited by tabl10s on Sun May 27, 2018 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
2016 Orbea Orca OMR:

15.2lbs/6.89kg.

2013 Wilier Zero.7:

13.04lbs/5.91kg.

2016 Rca:

11.07lbs/5.048kg.

2015 Pinarello F8(build in-process).

by Weenie


NiFTY
Posts: 1228
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 11:26 pm

by NiFTY

Probably need a build list
Evo 4.9kg SL3 6.64kg Slice RS 8.89kg viewtopic.php?f=10&t=110579" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tabl10s
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:40 am

by tabl10s

Deleted.
Last edited by tabl10s on Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
2016 Orbea Orca OMR:

15.2lbs/6.89kg.

2013 Wilier Zero.7:

13.04lbs/5.91kg.

2016 Rca:

11.07lbs/5.048kg.

2015 Pinarello F8(build in-process).

alcatraz
Posts: 1337
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Chainring bolts are around 7gr for 5 light ones.

Expander can be 6-10gr but if you need to preload your headset a lot then they won't work very well.

A PYC SP1101 chain is around 10-20gr lighter than a kmc x11sl.

Top cap you can leave off until you need to adjust your bars/headset. If you want to leave it in then 3gr with an alloy or carbon bolt should be possible.

Low hanging fruit is handlebars/seatpost/inner tubes/skewers/cassette/tires/rimtape/brakes.

tabl10s
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:40 am

by tabl10s

Not sure what preloading is. How does it affect the ride?
2016 Orbea Orca OMR:

15.2lbs/6.89kg.

2013 Wilier Zero.7:

13.04lbs/5.91kg.

2016 Rca:

11.07lbs/5.048kg.

2015 Pinarello F8(build in-process).

tabl10s
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:40 am

by tabl10s

alcatraz wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:12 am
Chainring bolts are around 7gr for 5 light ones.

Expander can be 6-10gr but if you need to preload your headset a lot then they won't work very well.

A PYC SP1101 chain is around 10-20gr lighter than a kmc x11sl.

Top cap you can leave off until you need to adjust your bars/headset. If you want to leave it in then 3gr with an alloy or carbon bolt should be possible.

Low hanging fruit is handlebars/seatpost/inner tubes/skewers/cassette/tires/rimtape/brakes.
I thought KMC was the best?
2016 Orbea Orca OMR:

15.2lbs/6.89kg.

2013 Wilier Zero.7:

13.04lbs/5.91kg.

2016 Rca:

11.07lbs/5.048kg.

2015 Pinarello F8(build in-process).

alcatraz
Posts: 1337
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Kmc might shift better but your result may vary depending on how well it mates with your cassette/chainrings.

I was just talking from a lightweight point of view, still keeping in mind durability and price. There are titanium chains out there for 100+usd if you like to save another 20gr but they must wear out faster. Might be fine if you're pushing low watts, high cadence and don't weigh a ton.

With preloading I mean how much you need to torque that top cap bolt after you've fiddled around with the stem (as in, made adjustments to your fit). Some bikes need to torque that bolt more than other bikes. Depends on how well the bearings fit in their spaces and how well everything is aligned, is my guess. If you have a precision made frame you probably won't need much and can get away with a small compression plug (expander).

tabl10s
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:40 am

by tabl10s

alcatraz wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 4:19 pm
Kmc might shift better but your result may vary depending on how well it mates with your cassette/chainrings.

I was just talking from a lightweight point of view, still keeping in mind durability and price. There are titanium chains out there for 100+usd if you like to save another 20gr but they must wear out faster. Might be fine if you're pushing low watts, high cadence and don't weigh a ton.

With preloading I mean how much you need to torque that top cap bolt after you've fiddled around with the stem (as in, made adjustments to your fit). Some bikes need to torque that bolt more than other bikes. Depends on how well the bearings fit in their spaces and how well everything is aligned, is my guess. If you have a precision made frame you probably won't need much and can get away with a small compression plug (expander).
Sounds like a professional is needed.
2016 Orbea Orca OMR:

15.2lbs/6.89kg.

2013 Wilier Zero.7:

13.04lbs/5.91kg.

2016 Rca:

11.07lbs/5.048kg.

2015 Pinarello F8(build in-process).

User avatar
4ibanez
Posts: 518
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:54 pm
Location: Norwich, UK
Contact:

by 4ibanez

It's actually really easy, and a skill you should learn. Eventually you'll probably have a headset come loose, or decide to swap bearings out.

Take off the top cap, loosen off the expander you have in place, but not fully. Undo stem bolts, but leave the stem in place. Remove expander if using a WW one. Keep a bit of wire handy in case you lose the expander down the steerer. They like to fall in, but they never seem to slide out as easily!

To adjust the headset: Just iteratively tighten your heavy OEM expander/top cap/steel bolt in the steerer... Be aware the expander needs to cover the area between your stem bolts, so check it's in the right position first. Then tighten it up with an allen key. Between wrenching, hold on your front brake and rock forward and back on the bars. It'll feel loose and rattle around a bit. Keep tightening til this stops (compare to another bike to familiarise yourself with a correctly adjusted headset). Too tight and your steering will drag. Once it's pre loaded correctly, you're ok to put your light top cap on in place of the heavy one - just nip it snug.

Or if you're installing a light expander e.g. Extralite/EE, do all of the above with a spare/OEM expander/top cap/bolt up til the last step. Then take out the heavy expander and replace with the WW one (your headset should still be pre-loaded). Tighten it a touch before putting it in the steerer so you have to push it in (so it doesn't fall in), and put it in the correct place. Install to the mfg specified torque spec being careful not to push further into the steerer, then throw on a top cap and bolt (the lighter the better) and nip tight.

Remember to tighten your stem back up! Should take about 5 mins - watch a youtube video too if that help some of the above make more sense.
Last edited by 4ibanez on Mon May 28, 2018 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

tabl10s
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:40 am

by tabl10s

Extralite vs EE, ... what's your favorite?
2016 Orbea Orca OMR:

15.2lbs/6.89kg.

2013 Wilier Zero.7:

13.04lbs/5.91kg.

2016 Rca:

11.07lbs/5.048kg.

2015 Pinarello F8(build in-process).

alcatraz
Posts: 1337
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Remember that the ultralight expanders can not be torqued very high. It'd be good to use a calibrated torque wrench. I'm always afraid to break my light compression plugs.

User avatar
4ibanez
Posts: 518
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:54 pm
Location: Norwich, UK
Contact:

by 4ibanez

I've heard good things about the EE one, and the expander is about 0.5g lighter than Extralite's. But it's quite a bit more expensive and comes with a disproportionately heavy cap and bolt not befitting the world's lightest expander. (Extralite doesn't come with a cap and bolt)

You wouldn't use EE's cap and bolt if that 0.5g difference was important to you - there's loads of lighter options. So on that basis I refuse to pay the premium for parts I won't use, and would go Extralite.

You could buy the Hypercap and the Ultrastar for around the same price as the EE, and you'd have a lighter setup. Or search hard and you could find even lighter top caps, and choose an M6 nylon or carbon bolt if you like.
Last edited by 4ibanez on Mon May 28, 2018 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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4ibanez
Posts: 518
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:54 pm
Location: Norwich, UK
Contact:

by 4ibanez

alcatraz wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 5:35 am
Remember that the ultralight expanders can not be torqued very high. It'd be good to use a calibrated torque wrench. I'm always afraid to break my light compression plugs.
My Ultrastar has a max torque value of 8nm (which I think is quite high). My stem's max torque is maybe 6nm on the steerer, but I torque both a bit less than the max anyway. Never had any concerns about it.

alcatraz
Posts: 1337
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

4ibanez wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 9:20 am
alcatraz wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 5:35 am
Remember that the ultralight expanders can not be torqued very high. It'd be good to use a calibrated torque wrench. I'm always afraid to break my light compression plugs.
My Ultrastar has a max torque value of 8nm (which I think is quite high). My stem's max torque is maybe 6nm on the steerer, but I torque both a bit less than the max anyway. Never had any concerns about it.
Ok cool. I'll try to torque mine at 8nm aswell. Although I don't have an ultrastar. It's similarly looking and alloy.

by Weenie


NiFTY
Posts: 1228
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 11:26 pm

by NiFTY

I also have the extralite hypercap combo. Under 9grams. on 2 bikes. Nil issues. I torque with a normal topcap though and switch back to hypercap after its preloaded
Evo 4.9kg SL3 6.64kg Slice RS 8.89kg viewtopic.php?f=10&t=110579" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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