Litespeed T1SL ride quality....too stiff?

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Oh Ryan... where to start :)... when did lower derailleur pulleys start competing with small chainrings for size? And some levers just don’t work well with certain bars and setup preferences. Did you need two chains to complete that drivetrain? The chain looks very “white”, is that just the light? Like you, I can’t write much now. But I like the initial impressions report so far.

Ok... the above was started when I first looked at your initial impressions... but good review overall I think. I share your impressions about the normal “sound” of discs... but if that’s the only annoyance that’s not a deal breaker.
But that bar/lever setup... ain’t right.
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RyanH
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by RyanH

That bar lever setup offends every fiber of my being. I'm not a fan of 3T's drop bar shapes in general but this one is particularly bad. It reminds me of some of the Schmolke bars with the chopped off ends without the weight benefits. And the chain? That's the cocaine chain as I like to refer to it...or formally called the ceramicspeed UFO chain.

The combination of additional "oh shit" braking and better modulation down tricky offroad descents along with the added tire clearance to be able to slap on a pair of clinchers clad with 32mm actual tires is itching at me. I don't have a plethora of dirt available to me to justify a CX/gravel bike but every once in awhile I'd like to enjoy some of the fireroad trails which are lightly sandy and can be tricky on 25mm tires. Getting that flexibility comes at a somewhat steep weight penalty though. My current build sheet is about +500g.

I did call Litespeed today to ask about the T2 Disc. They stated that the chainstays are the same (dimensionally) so tire clearance would be the same. A T2 disc in small should be about 1270g, which is around 20g heavier than my T3 rim brake model. For those that are interested, WBW has a medium for $2500, which is a screaming deal. You have to be a rewards member to see it though.

jlok
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by jlok

Nefarious86 wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:02 pm
This thread is dangerous... haha

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
Indeed... Just finished my T1sl Disc build.

Image

Once the fit is dialed I'd want lighter seat post and stem, and might be the Force AXS.
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

Gary71
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by Gary71

jlok wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:23 am
Nefarious86 wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:02 pm
This thread is dangerous... haha

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
Indeed... Just finished my T1sl Disc build.

Image

Once the fit is dialed I'd want lighter seat post and stem, and might be the Force AXS.

Hi Jloc, great looking build. What's your verdict? BIke review, ride, weight and overall thoughts????
Did you weigh the front fork? I have looked at Litespeeds' website and cannot see the fork weight mentioned anywhere.
I'm seriously liking the look of this frame.

jlok
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by jlok

Gary71 wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:17 am
jlok wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:23 am

Indeed... Just finished my T1sl Disc build.

Image

Once the fit is dialed I'd want lighter seat post and stem, and might be the Force AXS.

Hi Jloc, great looking build. What's your verdict? BIke review, ride, weight and overall thoughts????
Did you weigh the front fork? I have looked at Litespeeds' website and cannot see the fork weight mentioned anywhere.
I'm seriously liking the look of this frame.
Fork is 425g uncut.

I could only comment based on my limited bike experience.

The difference in compliance between them is the easiest to feel. But it's not that typical titanium "soft" I think (my first Ti frame so can't really tell).
Domane Disc 1st gen (size 50) >> T1sl Disc (M) > TCR Adv SL Disc (S) > Propel ADV SL Disc (M)

Rear triangle is obviously less stiff than the Propel. Try low cadence high torque (50-60rpm) and you will know.
Propel > TCR > Domane > T1sl

Turning response is slower (maybe due to the longer CS / Wheel Base and frame stiffness, but quite hard to conclude as the geometries are different).
Propel > TCR > T1sl >> Domane

But I'm not sure why it maintain speed easily maybe even more easier than Propel (same wheelset).
T1sl = Propel > Domane > TCR

Climbing... not yet compared, I'm not a good climber anyway.
TCR > Propel > Domane... T1sl?

Other notes:
1. Front fork clears 32mm effective tire width (Fusion 5 Perf TLR 28c on Enve 4.5 AR) just fine. CS barely clears 35mm effective width (GravelKing 32c) with some rubbing when doing high torque. I'd say 33mm would be the max ideal.
2. Need some washers for the bottle cage to clear the FD collar. No big deal, just get ready for it.
3. There's a dedicated channel in the DT for rear brake hose. I spent so much effort to force the hose through from the port from DT near BB area to the port at HT. No rattle at all when riding.

Hope this help.
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

Gary71
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by Gary71

Thanks for your comparison and honest response.
There seems to be a lot more flex in the the chain stays that I would have thought. I tend to grind my way up a hills (60-70rpm) more so than spinning. It sounds that this might be a problem for me as you have discovered - I am 78kg (172ish lbs).......,
back to the drawing board for my next n+1.

RyanH
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by RyanH

Flex isn't in itself a bad thing. I'm a low gear grinder too and tend to throw the bike around a lot. The Litespeed Classic (and the T3 before it) that I have isn't the stiffest bike in the world but it feels great when mashing or sprinting because it has that liveliness. It's hard to describe what a proper Ti bike feels like but the springiness almost feels organic and the bike feels like an extension of you. The reason I sold the T1sl was because I think it tries too hard to be like carbon and ends up losing the liveliness while making the flex that is there, not as pleasant feeling.

Last week I did 4x30s on both the Litespeed Classic and the Izalco Max. I do these from a standing start normally, up a hill. I'll get up to about 105 rpm and the goal is to try to keep the avg above 9w/kg. I find doing these on the Classic more rewarding when done right, and in good form. Your form is key. I find that people that have bad form usually find more bikes flexy. I have two friends that are right around 200lbs, the first one can put out 1600w in a sprint and the other can nearly touch 2K. The first one finds the Evo to be flexy while the other laughs at him. One person's sprinting form is bad, the other's is not.

So, flex isn't a bad thing, it's actually one of the reasons to buy Ti. While I've only ridden a handful of Ti bikes (well, 5 different models), my T3 felt better than the dozen or so top end carbon bikes I've had. The T1sl didn't have that same feeling. The Classic is a comfier version of the T3 but very capable in its own regards.

Gary71
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by Gary71

Hi Ryan
I 100% agree with you.
Flex is a good thing - in the amount and right areas balanced with your other touch points......, in some sort of magic harmony. Which seems to reside in the alchemy of artisan frame builders and not available as just some simple formula. The best bike I have owned or ridden was a Dynalite steel frame which was a Banesto team bike frame I managed to jag off one of the Spanish mechanics. Nothing could get me grinning like an idiot when I punched up a steep grade - even after 100+kms. It was infectious.
In fact, I have been in search of that feeling ever since. That's why I probably favour ferrous metals over carbon. I have had a couple of carbon bikes, ridden a bunch and still have the S3 - but it mostly collects dust.
I find I am always reaching for my other bikes (Colnago Master, Ken Evans - Evolution, CAAD12 DA Disc, or my 22nd Element Ti that I’ve currently converted to a fixed wheel).
My decision to look elsewhere was based on jlok’s comment that the turning was slow & your review saying the T1SL was a Ti bike trying to be a Carbon, IMHO (that being a guess) is the 6AL/4V tubing possibly should have been used for the downtube and head tubes leaving the CS, SS and seat post to provide compliance coupled with a matching fork, stem and handlebar combo to balance out the sensations?
Nothing comes close to the Banesto. The Master is the closest - but only when I changed the wheel set from Shammals to a pair of 40mm carbon hoops I had custom ordered from Farsports.
The CAAD12 disc is has the best breaking and is as effiecent as a carbon frame, but doesn't come with that elusive rhythum you get through a quality metal and a slight weight penalty. I've only riden 2 Ti bikes in my time (so my sampled experience is limited), but the Ti doesn't quite float my boat quite like the rhythum of quality steel. Maybe that's my sample set :noidea:
All I want is the beautiful ride qualities steel gives, disc wet weather breaking (I work in the city and commute 5 days a week in all weathers) without the weight penalty ........,
I have looked up Unicorncycling.com ....., but sadly the web domain is still available :(
The search continues

jlok
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by jlok

My M size disc brake frame weight 1169g. I think light and stiffness is the goal of this frame, so I agree with Ryan that the design of this frame actually targets some of the carbon frames.

The complex shaped and manufactured 6/4 Ti TT may sounds like better placed at DT, but I think it's there to reduce weight so it should be lighter but similar strength of 3/2 Ti DT. The tubes cross section area is quite big so I think the butting may be very extensive.

Considering overall the light and stiffness this frame offers, I think Litespeed has engineered something special with Ti, just may not be everyone's cup of tea. Even tho I'm still understanding this frame, I find myself liking this more than the Propel given the advantages and short-comings.
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

mnmasotto
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by mnmasotto

Ryan,
How do you like the BBB Lavar Ball jockey wheels?

addictR1
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by addictR1

humm... if there's more flex in the rear chainstay on the T1SL, then does that mean the rear wheel will rub? i'm not a powerful rider... but like Gary, i tend to ride grind up a 10%+ hill around 50-55rpm. so would it feel crappy? this T1SL is my N+1... so i'm excited at the same time i'm somewhat worried.

jlok
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by jlok

No it doesn't, unless you are using 35 effective width rubber at the rear.
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

addictR1
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by addictR1

jlok wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:08 am
No it doesn't, unless you are using 35 effective width rubber at the rear.
jlok.. thanks! most i'll run is 25mm tubs. i see you ride a TM02. i have a TMR02 and i find it very stiff and harsh ride on my old body. how do you think the T1SL compare to the TM?

jlok
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by jlok

addictR1 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:02 am
jlok.. thanks! most i'll run is 25mm tubs. i see you ride a TM02. i have a TMR02 and i find it very stiff and harsh ride on my old body. how do you think the T1SL compare to the TM?
T1sl feels more muted to imperfect road surfaces than TM02.

You got tubs so I think you will have a nice ride with the T1sl.
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

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toshi
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by toshi

Unearthing this old thread to see if any others have accrued miles on a T1SL and formed other opinions. RyanH's thoughts seem insightful and having ridden stiff but dead-ish bikes — but admiring the T1SL recently — hoping others might have a vastly different opinion.

Alternatively, how far do comfy 25/28mm tires on shallow rims go to mitigate dull feelings on a frame like this?

175cm/64kg rider who likes lively frames, stiffness secondary.

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