Litespeed T1SL ride quality....too stiff?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
RyanH
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by RyanH

They're Michelin Power Competition and they seem to be in good condition so not that many miles.

by Weenie


kode54
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by kode54

RyanH.

when I rode with Michelin Pro4s, i was descending and there was water run off from the previous days rain. going into the turn, the Michelins broke loose and I couldn't keep the bike upright and lost it. luckily, I rolled upside down onto the grassy slope. I never had that problem with some of my other tires like the Conti 4000II or Schwable Pro Ones. no damage to bike or myself, luckily.

BTW, great quickie review. makes me want to get a Litespeed again.
- AX Lightness Vial EVO D + DA9150 + Enve SES 4.5 carbon hubs
- Parlee Altum + DA9150 + Enve SES 4.5 carbon hubs
- Parlee ESX + DA9150 + THM SRM PM + Enve SES 6.7 CK hubs
- Guru Praemio R Titanium + DA9150 + Enve 3.4 CK hubs

pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

Thanks for the report Ryan.

Is this a size ML? Would you be on a M or S?

I see a lot of space between the rear tire and the seat tube. But I’m surprised to see the chainstay length being only 41.5cm and not longer.

Due to the large top tube the bike looks like it will produce a stiff front-end and hence a harsh ride up front. When do your next ride report please check out the ride quality on both ends of the bike.


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RyanH
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by RyanH

I returned the bike to my friend because I really needed a 110 stem instead of 120 so the fit was off and I was slightly above the max insertion on my mcfk post. That and I didn't feel wholly comfortable riding a $16k on two aggressive group rides over the weekend. Neither ride was going to tell me much more about the disc brakes than I found out today which was the primary reason for borrowing it. But I'll have to get to that tomorrow.

@pedalpshr
My impressions over the rough road mentioned above was almost entirely from the front end while I had very little vibration transmission in the rear. I rode my T3 back home today and immediately noticed the more pronounced road vibration with the Gips and 22mm tires.

Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

This thread is dangerous... haha

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kode54
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by kode54

yeah, no kidding.
- AX Lightness Vial EVO D + DA9150 + Enve SES 4.5 carbon hubs
- Parlee Altum + DA9150 + Enve SES 4.5 carbon hubs
- Parlee ESX + DA9150 + THM SRM PM + Enve SES 6.7 CK hubs
- Guru Praemio R Titanium + DA9150 + Enve 3.4 CK hubs

RyanH
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by RyanH

So, about the disc brakes. I'm probably viewed as one of those curmudgeonly people who poo poo the idea of disc brake on road bikes. I'm also not quite sure how or why people need to run larger than 27mm (actual) tires on road. But on the other hand, I run Tubulars which feel different from clinchers in both comfort and handling at various sizes. Their rim is also less likely to fail due to hard braking. I also ride some of the best carbon braking wheels available, which I put up there with the alloy braking of nemesis but most likely below something like a Hed Belgium.

How did I get along with the 9170 braking? In short, I thought it was fantastic BUT I'm still not sure I'm sold on needing it. My route was designed around showcasing the benefits of disc. Lots of 15 to 20% grades with stop signs at the bottom as well as the Hollywood sign descent which is narrow, steep, poor surface and around every corner is a good chance of a hiker to run into. This was probably my most law abiding ride as a cyclist as I spent the entire riding bombing down each pitch and hitting the brakes last minute. I was surprised to find that I not only stopped in time, but I had to let off the brakes because I stopped too soon. These are stop signs that I definitely would have locked my rear tire trying to stop for and most likely miss. Coming down from the Hollywood sign, I had a lot more confidence carrying more speed down the straight sections knowing that I could scrub off necessary speed if I person was around the corner. I normally take this descent pretty gingerly and even with the disc bike it was modest but my level of confidence was higher and I shaves 20s off my PR for a 4 min descent.

Through this testing I found a less than awesome part of disc. The rotors get warped when hot and rub for a minute or so.

Anyway, so, braking to hard stops, awesome. On a fast winding descent, I found them to be more or less a nicety. Whereas today on the Gipfelsturms I felt like I was grabbing a lot brakes to scrub speed (in comparison to yesterday), on the same descent with 9170 it felt more like feathering...just light grabs at the brake to scrub speed for a turn. And for me, something like that is like the difference of mechanical vs electronic shifting from a button pushing standpoint.

Last test that I had for the disc brakes was descending down a rough fire road. I tried navigating down this before on my rim bike but didn't have the confidence to explore the trail fully as it was a literal handful keeping my speed in check and modulating speed. With 9170, I was able to creep down with minimal effort on the hands. Disc got me down and then I found out that I couldn't get back up... So I hiked.

There's two other niggles about the bike and disc, one of which is the braking noise is slightly reminiscent of a chalkboard... Don't really like that and the DT hose rattled on mildly rough pavement.

Last thing was that I didn't like the Lightweights. They felt God awful slow, like I was riding CCUs again. I'm guessing this is partly because they're clinchers but holy crap did they feel slow. Funny thing was, Bahati was eyeing my Gipfelsturms today and inquired about them. I told him how much I like them but shared my opinion of the clinchers and then he opened up about how slow the Meilenstein clinchers he was on last week felt. He said he never felt like he had to work as hard as he had to on those wheels.

dbnm
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by dbnm

I've been struggling with the idea of a new bike just so I can get discs. Probably not gonna do it. Thanks for the write up

AJS914
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by AJS914

Discs are not enough of a reason to get a new road bike IMO.

RyanH
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by RyanH

You have to have a reason to get a new road bike?

Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

Ryan, Half of your issues with disc seem to be more of a setup and poor equipment choice. (Never thought I'd say that about lightweights..)

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RyanH
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by RyanH

Yes and no. The sound of disc braking is what it is. All of the disc brakes I've ridden sounded the same. I'm not talking about screeching or wailing, just the normal sound which is metallic is a little bit like nails on a chalk board (exaggeration).

Shimano rotors warping slightly when going from 45mph to zero in a very short distance, I've conformed that with tonytourist who is a disc brake fanatic and muffinman who works at some gucci shop that wind in my face digilloyd frequents. They said it has to do with the aluminum core and it's normal. You could run different rotors I guess but why should you?

Downtube rattle could be fixed by zip ties. I forgot to put that in my description.

Anyway, I agree though, my complaints are pretty superficial. None of those are deal breakers in themselves and if I was starting from scratch with no bikes, no wheels, disc would probably be a pretty easy choice. But, when I hopped back onto my Litespeed with eeBrakes and Gipfelsturms, I didn't crash into anything. Of course, that hasn't stopped me from putting together a hypothetical build sheet for a Litespeed T1sl disc (6.1kg) and a T2 disc (6.4kg with power meter).

The biggest draws to those two frames are about wheels and tire choices. There's so much clearance on the disc versions that you could easily run some file treads and go blast around on what most people would have a gravel bike for... But on a full fledged race bike. Secondly, regarding wheels, disc brakes decouple the braking quality from the rim. My 14 wheels I had over the past year, more than half of those didn't meet my braking needs or expectations. Having disc brakes allows me to buy any wheelset I want without consideration if it'll brake well or not. Right now, that's something that causes anxiety (yeah, serious fwp) when I reach to click Buy on a new wheelset. I don't trust any reviews unless they directly compare them to Boras or Mavic. And, hopefully on the manufacturing side, it means that we'll see the wheels get better themselves since they can spend more R&D on the rims rather than the brake track.

jlok
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by jlok

Where's the Like, Upvote, +, Beer or whatever button to agree to your post? Great review! me want the T1sl now!
Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 / BMC TM02 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

tonytourist
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by tonytourist

RyanH wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:31 pm
Shimano rotors warping slightly when going from 45mph to zero in a very short distance, I've conformed that with tonytourist who is a disc brake fanatic and muffinman who works at some gucci shop that wind in my face digilloyd frequents.
Dang, since when did I become Tobin? All of my rides are outdoors, not on Zwift. Also, no tubeless for me... currently :smartass: :unbelievable:

cmcdonnell
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by cmcdonnell

I was really disappointed when the T1SL was released because of the geomerty. In my size, the small, the head tube length increasd by 17mm and the stack by 16mm which made the frame unsuable to me and quite unlike any previous Litespeed small (all with 52.5 TT). The T1 rides really well and is a comfortable as my Bianchi but with a different ride. Stiff enough for my weight. Only complaint is the weight at 1220g.
Bianchi Oltre XR2 + Campagnolo Super Record 11 + Campagnolo Bora 50C
Litespeed T1 + Campagnolo Chorus 11 + Campagnolo Shamal Ultra

by Weenie


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