Having a rough week (C60 crack)

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Ringo
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:06 am

by Ringo

Rolls-Royce has 4-year warranty on their cars.
Length of the warranty doesn’t mean much.
You could have a lifetime warranty on your bike/car, but most companies can get away with it with legal tricks..
BUT when we speak for handmade, high end, superbikes... those things are unacceptable!

by Weenie


nichob11
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:27 pm

by nichob11

always remember there's always someone worse off than you.
Me this week on my c60...not even crash induced.
Attachments
C60 crack.jpg

r4nd0mv4r14bl3
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:26 am

by r4nd0mv4r14bl3

Alu dropout debonded from the chainstay? Faulty glue job perhaps. How's your warranty?

darnellrm
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Location: NC, USA

by darnellrm

The guys at my local shop used to say that you got the standard Italian warranty, Lifetime or until you got out the door, whichever came first. ;o)

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Calnago
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by Calnago

@nichob11: Regardless of whether that’s in warranty or not, I’d be contacting Colnago. At a minimum I would think they would want to dissect that joint to see if maybe the chainstay didn’t get inserted far enough into the dropout etc. Theres no chance that’s a fake frame is it?... where they actually make a mold to mimic the lug shapes on the outside but in fact they’re not lugged at all. Looks legit to me but it’s a pretty small pic.
So, you just happened to notice that... nothing out of the ordinary that you can think of? How old is it? Even if there was something like hitting a big pothole, anything like that, I think it’s better to be completely honest with the manufacturer so they can look at it, with the knowledge of how it actually happened, then either determine 1) it wasn’t right to begin with, due to either an assembly error or a weakness in at tube etc, or 2) it is something that they need to look at a little more closely from a design perspective, especially if there’s a pattern they are seeing from other warranty claims. Nobody was pulling hard on the hanger during an alignment process when it happened were they? This is my biggest fear when aligning hangers that are pretty strong... what breaks first... the hanger or the dropout. Knock on wood I haven’t broken a frame this way yet.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

Bigger Gear
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Location: Wet coast, Canada

by Bigger Gear

nichob11 wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:39 pm
always remember there's always someone worse off than you.
Me this week on my c60...not even crash induced.
Ouch. You win for sure. I hope you are under warranty still!

It would be interesting to know the failure rate of something like a Colnago C60/64 or Pinarello F8/F10 versus bikes like a Specialized Tarmac, Trek Emonda, or Cannondale EVO Hi-Mod. I know a local guy who is on his 3rd Pinarello F8.

The whole issue of warranty is interesting. I know Trek is excellent at honoring the lifetime warranty claims. I saw a guy break a 5500 frame from 2004 and return to a shop in 2016 and they set him up with the current equivalent which was determined to be an Emonda SLR frame and fork. That's pretty awesome.

My "emotions" regarding bikes have evolved since I bought this C60. I'm much more into steel and titanium frames these days, plus I really enjoy the one-off part of buying and owning a custom bike. All of the bikes in my past that I have truly cherished have been metal of some form and built for me. There is a very good chance that the DA 9070 group from my C60 ends up on something steel. But honestly, after my 2 experiences with Colnago and seeing other people have issues with Pinarellos, if I was buying something carbon I would be considering the warranty and probably buying from the big 4: Trek, Specialized, Giant or C-dale.
Last edited by Bigger Gear on Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

@nichob11: I blew up that picture you had, and if you had shown that to me for my opinion I'd say the chainstay didn't get inserted far enough into the dropout lug from the beginning. If you imagine the cracks in the paint being closed up, you can clearly see the straight edge of the end of the tube. Looks to me like, if the crack in the paint was brought togehter, that the edge of the chainstay would barely be inside the dropout. As much as I like Colnagos for their robustness, I'd be putting up a stink if they didn't make things right here, even if it is out of warranty. I've never pulled one apart at that dropout, so I can't say for sure how far inside the dropout that chainstay should extend, but it looks like it could have been inserted another 3-4mm than it was. I'm sure they would know instantly from looking at these pics.

Good Luck... mistakes happen, and no manufacturer is perfect all the time. It's how stuff like this gets handled that makes the difference. It's rare, and truthfully, the colnagos I've owned and worked on all seem so bulletproof that I don't even really care about the warranty. If it breaks, it's generally going to be because of a bad crash, or mishap like running it into the top of gargae door while transporting on a roof rack or something. On the other hand, there are some brands that are happy to replace frame after frame, and they do... but I wouldn't want a frame that I've had to replace 3 times from breaking. Warranties are nice, but I view them as added insurance, hopefully never having to be used, rather than expecting it will have to be used at some point.

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Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
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kode54
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by kode54

looks like Colnago didn't even use glue...and the paint held it together. it was press fit tight and maybe forgot to use glue.

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nichob11
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:27 pm

by nichob11

Bigger Gear wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:58 pm
nichob11 wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:39 pm
always remember there's always someone worse off than you.
Me this week on my c60...not even crash induced.
Ouch. You win for sure. I hope you are under warranty still!

It would be interesting to know the failure rate of something like a Colnago C60/64 or Pinarello F8/F10 versus bikes like a Specialized Tarmac, Trek Emonda, or Cannondale EVO Hi-Mod. I know a local guy who is on his 3rd Pinarello F8.

The whole issue of warranty is interesting. I know Trek is excellent at honoring the lifetime warranty claims. I saw a guy break a 5500 frame from 2004 and return to a shop in 2016 and they set him up with the current equivalent which was determined to be an Emonda SLR frame and fork. That's pretty awesome.

My "emotions" regarding bikes have evolved since I bought this C60. I'm much more into steel and titanium frames these days, plus I really enjoy the one-off part of buying and owning a custom bike. All of the bikes in my past that I have truly cherished have been metal of some form and built for me. There is a very good chance that the DA 9070 group from my C60 ends up on something steel. But honestly, after my 2 experiences with Colnago and seeing other people have issues with Pinarellos, if I was buying something carbon I would be considering the warranty and probably buying from the big 4: Trek, Specialized, Giant or C-dale.
@bigger gear sorry to hijack your thread. i just thought i would your day a bit better at the expense of mine.
I have to say that i'm starting to have the sentiments towards major brand warranties over the more premium brands...although their geometry and the ride are just so damn compelling.

@Calnago:

a bit of background:
-i bought this frame from an authorised dealer here in Australia who also happens to be the distributor in the country.
-it was purchased in June 2014 and registered on the Colnago website 10 days from the purchase so i could benefit from the extended 3 year warranty from Colnago.
-I have now ridden 30,000 kms with this bike without any issues and has been fantastic to ride until now.
-in terms of the incident, which could have been far more dramatic given the fact that 5km before the incident i went down and up a 3km descent with sections of 15% decline. failure at that moment would have been far far worse.
-the incident itself was a really odd one. rolling out of this climb and towards another one, on a reasonably flat and smooth road, i hit something which caused an instant puncture. I repair it somewhat baffled by the how and why of this flat. as it turns out i hit some very small car debris, probably from a car accident. In placing the rear wheel back in i noticed that my wheel wasn't spinning.
On closer inspection it was rubbing the drive side chain stay quite dramatically and then we suddenly noticed the blatantly obvious crack, separation in the frame.

Now, i returned the frame to the LBS from which i purchased it, they pulled the receipt but were a little bit confronted by the frame failure. Since it wasn't crash induced or bad handling it clearly they were somewhat surprised as it seems they don't get many returns on these frames.
They acknowledge that while out of warranty they were going to contact the factory to get their opinion.

My view is that on close inspection it is a separation from the glue that bonds the dropout to the chain stay. Technically speaking this would be a manufacture defect which is protected by consumer law irrespective of warranty period (In Australia that is).

The shocking part is that it fully separated back and front. here's an image from between the seatstays.

I'm not angry or pissed off, just thankful i'm in one piece. I'm fully aware that mistakes happen, i sure do hope that Collage can navigate the fundamentals of customer service one way or another. I'll be moving on otherwise. Simple really.

Thanks for your comments.
Attachments
c60>2.jpg

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mrgray
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by mrgray

@nichob11 - the only way to prevent this sort of failure is to avoid the use, on colnago c-series bikes, of shimano groupsets! like i had a c60 but running super record this sort of shit never happened. also calnago.

case closed eh

:D
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nichob11
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:27 pm

by nichob11

mrgray wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:36 am
@nichob11 - the only way to prevent this sort of failure is to avoid the use, on colnago c-series bikes, of shimano groupsets! like i had a c60 but running super record this sort of shit never happened. also calnago.

case closed eh

:D
I like your spirit but i for one think it's a simple case of two many watt bombs. :?

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Calnago
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by Calnago

@nichob11: now that the circumstances are more clear, I’m not sure that what I thought before is true, and now maybe think that the chainstay was inserted in the dropout as it should have been, but the impact just caused a shearing of the chainstay right along the joint of the chainstay and dropout? It’s just such a straight edge that I thought it must be the end of the chainstay. Can you tell if the chainstay was just sheered away, as if it was a piece of glass that was scored like they do to cut it.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

Bigger Gear
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Location: Wet coast, Canada

by Bigger Gear

No worries on hijacking the thread nichob11.

I don't understand how hitting any small debris could cause this failure. Since you say you were unsure what caused the puncture, the debris you hit must not have been very significant in terms of size. Unless something was physically ejected and momentarily jammed between the the cassette and the stay then I don't see how it could have caused this fracture. If it was from impact, again you've probably hit bigger potholes or cracks than whatever debris caused you mystery puncture. Were the scratches just in front of the crack there already (from your chain?) or did they happen at the same time. The scratches might indicate something momentarily lodging in there and putting outward pressure on the stay??

I hope Colnago takes care of you.

NiFTY
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by NiFTY

Thats rough. It makes me feel smug about all the country of origin being equivalent to quality related bike chat though.
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by Weenie


glepore
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by glepore

Even a small piece of something hard, say, metal or even hard plastic, kicked up by the wheel into the stay as it rolled over, could cause a shear like this. One of the unfortunate things about carbon is its lack of impact resistance. Ask USAF guys about the restrictions on tools etc when working on or around carbon skinned aircraft. Of anyone who's had a fork blade impacted. Its impossible to tell from these photos what the failure mode was, but closer inspection might reveal something.
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