Shimano 11 cassette with Campag-can’t get it right

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
User avatar
Lightweenie
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:00 pm

by Lightweenie

To also report my own experience. After a thread I had started here some months ago where the responses I got ranged from it works fine to it does not work at all, I decided to try it out.

My setup: Chorus 2015+ all except Crankset (Rotor P2M with PraxisWorks rings), Chain (Ultegra R8000) and Cassette (11-28 Ultegra R8000).

Result: I had to increase cable tension a couple of times (I guess cable stretching?) but now it works like a charm for 3 months, no problems, noises, hesitation in shifting whatsoever. There is not even a comparison to the 7800 groupset it replaced. However I should note that all the components are brand new, so this may change down the road when things become a bit worn - we'll see. In the worst case I'll need to change two freehub bodies and cassettes, but I don't see me changing the crankset in the near future).

Also one thought which perhaps explains these conflicting opinions on the matter. I could well imagine that two different frames both within the campagnolo specs for chainline, RD-hanger etc, could still be different enough so that in one case the franken-setup works perfectly as is the case with my setup, and in the other case it does not work as smooth as seems to be the case with you. So there could be some luck involved on whether your frame allows a smooth mix-and-match or not, and I guess its hard to find out without trying...

by Weenie


Mackers
Posts: 484
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:02 pm

by Mackers

My experience mixing 11S components:

Giant TCR SL - Chorus - 105 12-25 - Ultegra chain - Perfect
De Rosa Vision - SR - Ultegra 12-25 -Ultegra chain - Perfect
Colnago Tecnos - Chorus - Ultegra 12-25 - Ultegra chain - Perfect
Colnago Superissimo - Record - Ultegra 11-23 - DA chain - Perfect

YMMV as they say :)

g00se
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:22 pm

by g00se

Again, another one who has run a 105 11-speed 12-25 with an Athena mech with Record levers. Works fine but Graeme would have kittens! ;) - I say that after listening to his fascenating piece on campag equipment in the Cycle Acadeny podcast and the issues with mixing powershift and ultrashift combinations. Just to make it worse, the rear mech is short cage and I also run a 12-29 Miche cassette with a 50-34 compat for the alps.

With that Shimano splined wheelset, I may take that to the alps too - so I was going to use it with an 11-28 Ultegra cassette. Now I know that may be more problematic, I'll give it a test to see if I need to get a campag-compatible freehub to run the Miche cassette instead.

User avatar
ManekiNico
Posts: 140
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:10 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

by ManekiNico

“Shimano 11 cassette with Campag”

Image

Sorry, couldn't resist. :wink:
Mom: He was very sickly until he started riding around on that bicycle.
Dad: Yeah... well... now his body’s fine, but his mind is gone.

glepore
Posts: 1155
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Virginia USA

by glepore

g00se wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:30 pm
Again, another one who has run a 105 11-speed 12-25 with an Athena mech with Record levers. Works fine but Graeme would have kittens! ;) - I say that after listening to his fascenating piece on campag equipment in the Cycle Acadeny podcast and the issues with mixing powershift and ultrashift combinations. Just to make it worse, the rear mech is short cage and I also run a 12-29 Miche cassette with a 50-34 compat for the alps.

With that Shimano splined wheelset, I may take that to the alps too - so I was going to use it with an 11-28 Ultegra cassette. Now I know that may be more problematic, I'll give it a test to see if I need to get a campag-compatible freehub to run the Miche cassette instead.
Can you provide a link to the podcast? Searched Soundcloud etc. no luck.
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Cannondale SS Evo Di2 7970 (5.79); Willier Cento Uno Air Di2 9070 (7.0); C40 Mk2 DA 7800 ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

CarlosFerreiro
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:41 pm
Location: Shetland, Scotland

by CarlosFerreiro


glepore
Posts: 1155
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Virginia USA

by glepore

Thanks!
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Cannondale SS Evo Di2 7970 (5.79); Willier Cento Uno Air Di2 9070 (7.0); C40 Mk2 DA 7800 ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

xcnick
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:27 pm

by xcnick

I got a Campag cassette. Out of interest I checked the gaps using a drill bit! The drill bit fits perfectly into the gaps between the smaller sprockets but there is no way it will slot in between the larger sprockets.
The Shimano cassette on the other hand has larger gaps between the upper sprockets than the smaller ones. But the difference in gap size is much less too.
I know it’s hardly scientific but clearly proves where the differences are.

I was out with a friend who runs super record and Ultegra cassette the other day. He says it’s fine but riding behind him I could see and hear that it wasn’t fine, at all!

Image
Image

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 6545
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

That’s a good enough real world experiment for me. It’s funny what some people accept as “fine” or even “perfect”. I may be forced into seeing how the reverse works. I have a Zipp Superzero Disc from when they introduced them. Things were 10sp then. Unfortunately you can’t change the freehub to accommodate 11sp Shimano. My option (if want 11sp is to switch to the Campy freehub through their conversion kit and then be able to use Campy 11sp (or 12sp now) cassettes and then run them with the SRAM drivetrain. I’m hoping it’s “good enough”.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

User avatar
fa63
Posts: 2310
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:26 am
Location: Atlanta, GA, US

by fa63

Interesting. I was getting ready to pull the trigger on a new Centaur 11 groupset to use with a Shimano wheelset and 11-32 cassette, but it sounds like it may not work very well.

istigatrice
Posts: 821
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 8:32 am
Location: Australia

by istigatrice

I've generally found campy cassettes in a Shimano system to be acceptable (again our definitions may be different), but I've struggled to get a Shimano cassette (12-25 and 11-25) to be 'acceptable' with a Campagnolo system (unless I remove the 16 or 18T and block out the 11th shift).

What I would like to see/try is a 11spd SRAM cassette in a 11spd Campagnolo system... I suspect the SRAM cassette may work a little better, because when I swap between SRAM/Shimano cassettes on my Shimano bike, the SRAM cassette needs a high limit screw adjustment (if I've got my terms correct, I mean to say that the cassette feels wider).
I write the weightweenies blog, hope you like it :)

Disclosure: I'm sponsored by Velocite, but I do give my honest opinion about them (I'm endorsed to race their bikes, not say nice things about them)

alcatraz
Posts: 1234
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

What about getting the heavier kind of cassette with individual cogs and order a set of appropriate spacers to make it a perfect fit?

Although it's a compromise, I'm thinking even the lighter cassettes (except one piece designs) can be corrected sufficiently. Like the dura-ace cassette has blocks of 3 cogs. The misalignment is most severe at the ends of the cassette so if the blocks are adjusted it could eliminate that end range misalignment even if within the blocks themselves it's not corrected. With 3 cogs in one block there aren't enough cogs to compound a great enough misalignent to cause issues, maybe...

/a

User avatar
jekyll man
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:23 am
Location: Pack filler

by jekyll man

Calnago wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:16 pm
That’s a good enough real world experiment for me. It’s funny what some people accept as “fine” or even “perfect”. I may be forced into seeing how the reverse works. I have a Zipp Superzero Disc from when they introduced them. Things were 10sp then. Unfortunately you can’t change the freehub to accommodate 11sp Shimano. My option (if want 11sp is to switch to the Campy freehub through their conversion kit and then be able to use Campy 11sp (or 12sp now) cassettes and then run them with the SRAM drivetrain. I’m hoping it’s “good enough”.
Just get someone to machine the back of the carrier down on an 11spd shimano cassette. Most times it doesnt need to be more than 1.5mm, and no wider than the "boss". Easier and cheaper than trying to source a campag freehub (ive got an 808 with the old 182 hub).
Only dont do it with a dura ace level one- stick to 105/ultegra.

Personally i'm running campag 11 or (non gen versions) cassettes on shimano shifting systems, mechanical and di2, and also shimano cassettes on a campag pre 2015 super record, all with no problems, inc racing on them when you need decent shifting.

KMC chains are also a smidge thinner apparently, so that may also help.
Official cafe stop tester

xcnick
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:27 pm

by xcnick

I’m looking forward to getting the Campag cassette on today and seeing the difference in shifting! I think the best chance of getting the Shimano cassette to work as well as possible would be to use the Campag spacers between the smaller cogs (if you have any spare rather than buying 2 cassettes :lol: )

alcatraz
Posts: 1234
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Successfully using shimano style cassettes would vastly broaden your options. Price and weight would surely decrease. Availability, delivery time would improve. Personally I like to tinker so I'd give the spacer solution a go but it's a personal choice of course.

/a

by Weenie


Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post