Campagnolo 12-Speed

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

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c60rider
Posts: 706
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

It does appear that the Record group has been downgraded in some ways the most noticeable for me is the removal of the ceramic lower jockey wheel bearing and not having cutouts in the ergolevers is much like the previous chorus. Maybe chorus is to come but the existing chorus, record and SR were so closely matched that it would seem strange not to release chorus now so either it's been dropped or they've got something new planned for it. There's certainly space between Potenza and Record price wise.

I really like the new chainset over the existing one however I'm not sure that many people buy it these days as aren't most using crank based power meters? I thought it was a given that they would produce an integrated power meter at some point but the comments earlier with patents seems to suggest it's a way off if at all.

avispa
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:36 am

by avispa

Zakalwe wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:24 pm
Anyone know of any good 11sp SR deals going on
yeah, PM me! :D


AJS914
Posts: 4438
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

I'm a little sad that Chorus is gone. It truly offered the best bang for the buck. There wasn't much difference between Chorus and Record aside from red logos, the non-cult ceramic crankset bearings vs the usb bearings, and a few extra bits of carbon. It certainly wasn't worth an extra $500. It will be interesting to see the price points of the new groupsets. Maybe they will make Record a little cheaper and with a steel cassette you can get close to Chorus' price point?

The cycling tips article and video are pretty good. In the video the new components look less ugly. I actually like the Record crank better since it doesn't have the extra aerodynamic bits.

neeb
Posts: 727
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:19 pm

by neeb

Anyone know what the external width of the new Bora WTOs is?

Also wondering if the new wheel shape is going to be applied to the lower profile Boras any time soon - although that seems to be the assumption, they'd really need to have a tubular version for the pro teams, and it looks like Campagnolo are still marketing the 50 & 35mm Boras quite heavily together with the new 12sp groups.

bilwit
Posts: 1422
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:49 am
Location: Seattle, WA

by bilwit

XCProMD wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:27 pm
Another 2-3 years reading “12 is nosense”.

Then another 5 reading “Campy just copies what Shimano does. Dead in no time”
but... do you really need another cog? :lol:

reippuert
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:18 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

by reippuert

AJS914 wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:31 pm
It seems like it is to Campy's advantage that their 11 speed cassette lines up almost perfectly with Shimano and SRAM. If they go to 12 speeds they will be the odd man out.

Here is where I wish the three major manufacturers would decide together on 12 speed cassette spacing.
get your facts straigt: Shimano and SRAM copied campagnolo here - thy just did a poor job dooing so

Cmapy 9/10/11/12 intruduced back in mid 1996 = Shimano/SRAM 11 speed from 2011-2012...

And Campy had 11 speed on that hub in 2008.
--
mvh. Morten Reippuert Knudsen @Merlin Works CR, Chorus 15, Reynolds 46/66

reippuert
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:18 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

by reippuert

Miller wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:06 am
I'm doubtful of a move to 12sp by Campag any time soon, they released the disc groups just 10 months ago with revised derailleurs and chainsets, why would they obsolete those already by going to 12sp? EPS is due a refresh, I'd put that next on the list.
deraillures was revised in 2014 !
--
mvh. Morten Reippuert Knudsen @Merlin Works CR, Chorus 15, Reynolds 46/66

reippuert
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:18 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

by reippuert

dgasmd wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:49 pm
XCProMD wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:16 pm
Late April is going to be interesting
Doubt it, but time will tell.

I think the changes as of late in a lot of the new stuff coming out over th elast few years is simply for the sake of offering something new and not necessarily better, but what do I know.

Still holding out for wireless 11 Sp EPS that is almost entirely tuned with an app. When it comes out I'll switch all my bikes. As pointed out above, going to a mechanic, at least in all the parts of the US where I have lived and mentioning Campagnolo is like talking about the Devil in church. Everybody hates it because they are not well trained in it and don't see it often. Matter of fact, I went to a shop last week in a very affluent area of South FL that caters to racers and such and asked if they work on Campy. The answer was "yeah, we could figure out something. But you might want to switch son because I hear they are going out of business in the next couple of months". Walked out 5 secs later shaking my head :noidea:
do it yourself... ship is not needed for campy.
--
mvh. Morten Reippuert Knudsen @Merlin Works CR, Chorus 15, Reynolds 46/66

reippuert
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:18 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

by reippuert

XCProMD wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:46 pm
Most people in the States don’t get the Mittelstand (Germany) / PMI (Italy) concept.

That side of the pond you believe a company can only be healthy if it grows. Success is measured in terms of growth and little else. Tesla and Amazon are good examples, companies that hardly turn a profit but have become huge by burning money at rocket rate. I’m not criticising it, many shareholder have made a fortune on them, and so have their CEO’s.

Enron :-)
--
mvh. Morten Reippuert Knudsen @Merlin Works CR, Chorus 15, Reynolds 46/66

reippuert
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:18 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

by reippuert

2lo8 wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:24 am
As much as I want (2x) 12 speed:

No Chorus. What's going to happen to Chorus? Year delay like Ultegra? Repositioned as 11 speed Ultrashift? Discontinued? Even buying Chorus is a stretch for me. The difference in weight between SR and Record is now closer to the difference in weight between older SR and Chorus (172g vs 180g).

Why was everything hit with the ugly stick? The derailer hanger was the last universal Campagnolo standard left. Now the rear looks even stranger trying to adapt to the Shimano hanger. Is it still dual sprung (sprung at the upper pivot), judging from the giant bulbous shape? This seems like an awful design choice when you only have 2 similar cassettes only 3t apart. I'm not really sure what is going on in the front, it appears the two parts are not eccentric, so there is no cam action going on. The large carbon cage is rather unsightly and bulky. How much does that arm bridge on SR help if it is not directly adhered to the chainring? Admittedly I like the lack of styling ridges on the record crank. The hydro hoods are inelegant to say the least, coming on the heels of Shimano's slimmed down R7000 hydro STI. The mechanical hoods inexplicably come to a sharp inward facing point. On the rim brakes, again with the round protrution, it looks even worse than just having the bolt go all the way through.

As far as weight, not impressive at all. The Record crank is only a few grams lighter than 105 or Rival OCT. I think R8000 is actually lighter than Record. Record is just Ultegra now, not DA. SR isn't Record+ anymore, it's DA. It looks like there's no room for Record- (Chorus) anymore.

Campy is gonna disconhtinue Chours by rebranding as Record.

It started in 2008 when Super record was introuduced and vraious high end features was skipped in chorus line, My 2007 Chours skeleton brake capliper = 100% Record 2008-2018 except from tha later beeing anodized black.
--
mvh. Morten Reippuert Knudsen @Merlin Works CR, Chorus 15, Reynolds 46/66

reippuert
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:18 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

by reippuert

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:42 am
Shrike wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:38 am
Rarely surprised by anything much in cycling tech but Campag being first out with a road 12 speed?

Kudos 8)

Reminder that Campagnolo was first to 11-speed...
and 10 speed
and 9 speed
--
mvh. Morten Reippuert Knudsen @Merlin Works CR, Chorus 15, Reynolds 46/66

reippuert
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:18 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

by reippuert

mrlobber wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:39 am
I meant no new ones in the future, which this release implies to a degree, especially the part of "tubulars are slow".
tubulars are light - rims needs less material to be lighter and stronger.
on tubulars you can continue to ride with a flat
on tubulars you dont die if yiu have a punkture in a descent.
--
mvh. Morten Reippuert Knudsen @Merlin Works CR, Chorus 15, Reynolds 46/66

reippuert
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:18 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

by reippuert

bm0p700f wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:45 pm
Just got a call about this from the rep. I'll get the first ones record and super record in 4-6 weeks aparrantly.

I read up on the spec a bit but I like the look of it.

Direct mount rear mech, see I said that was coming. !2 speed though that has surpised me. Sad that there is no 1x option but maybe that will come. And cassettes are limited to 11-29 and 11-32T and no EPS at present. That will change I am sure. Miche and KMC will no doubt be srambling to make chains and cassettes for this now.
gime me 13,14.15,16.17.18,19, 21, 24,27,31,35 - please (or a campy 46/30 crankset)
--
mvh. Morten Reippuert Knudsen @Merlin Works CR, Chorus 15, Reynolds 46/66

reippuert
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:18 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

by reippuert

bm0p700f wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:38 pm
new EPS is due later in the year and details of that has not been released. So most of the compalinign is that they have not released all at once. There maybe other cassette options but the rear mech geometry means that a 12-25T is not going to shift as well. Also sales of 12-25T cassettes are not strong. Shimano sell alot of the 11-28T and 11-32T because that what the public want.

Can we not accept that our needs are rather niche and there is not much in it for businesses to cater for,unless they are low volume boutique/expensive rather than complaining that companies dont cater for us.

Balsitic if you want an 11-31T cassette make it. The obvious choice is 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28-32T but given people want the 16T cog it forces the comprmise elsewhere. So thats why campagnolo have gone for the choices they have.

Also who says road bikes will stay 130mm. They have made a groupset that will work with 135mm spacing too and I except road rim brake bikes to move to 135mm spacing and possibly through axles (142x12mm) before too long. This groupset is about creating a platform that cope with the new trends and standard that are probably on the horizon. That way they can update rather than reinvent.

assumptions asumptions....
people want 16T & 18T

straight block to 19 + 21-24-27-31

and let me start out with 13t, dont need 11 or 12.
--
mvh. Morten Reippuert Knudsen @Merlin Works CR, Chorus 15, Reynolds 46/66


BigPoser
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:42 pm

by BigPoser

Will the new 12sp cassette fit on current 11sp Campy freehub or do they have to be full Campy wheels to make them fit?

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