Campagnolo 12-Speed

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

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basilic
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by basilic

ooo wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:54 pm
11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-22-25-28-32
12 speeds, and they still give you that horrible SRAM jump from 19 to 22, a change of 15.8% in the middle of the range.
I would have preferred
11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-27-31
or
11-12-13-14-15-16-18-20-22-25-28-32


Daniel1975
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by Daniel1975

Why start with 11?
12 makes much more sense.
I prefer my 11sp 12-25 much more then those 11-29 or 11-32.

I’ve been using (and loving) Campy for over 25 years, much I think my recent SR groupset will be the last one. 12sp on 130mm doesn’t make sense, ugly crankset, ugly rear derailleur and probably much more expensive then 9100.
They should have updated EPS with a modern junction box or wireless.

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dgasmd
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by dgasmd

Make eps wireless and I will upgrade my C60 to that in 11sp and my old Look 595 will get turned into a dedicated climbing bike with compact 12sp wireless eps. Until then, I’m sitting pretty!

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

new EPS is due later in the year and details of that has not been released. So most of the compalinign is that they have not released all at once. There maybe other cassette options but the rear mech geometry means that a 12-25T is not going to shift as well. Also sales of 12-25T cassettes are not strong. Shimano sell alot of the 11-28T and 11-32T because that what the public want.

Can we not accept that our needs are rather niche and there is not much in it for businesses to cater for,unless they are low volume boutique/expensive rather than complaining that companies dont cater for us.

Balsitic if you want an 11-31T cassette make it. The obvious choice is 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28-32T but given people want the 16T cog it forces the comprmise elsewhere. So thats why campagnolo have gone for the choices they have.

Also who says road bikes will stay 130mm. They have made a groupset that will work with 135mm spacing too and I except road rim brake bikes to move to 135mm spacing and possibly through axles (142x12mm) before too long. This groupset is about creating a platform that cope with the new trends and standard that are probably on the horizon. That way they can update rather than reinvent.

assumptions asumptions....

RTW
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by RTW

c60rider wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:10 am
RTW wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:08 am
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:42 am
Reminder that Campagnolo was first to 11-speed...
Yes, but it was rubbish. It barely worked in 2009, and only with refinements (near rear mech) did it begin to work properly a year later.
Bought super record when it first came out and still works as smoothly and slick as it did when new 9 years ago. The latest super record on my newest bike is only fractionally better and the sensitive front mech is a pain to get right.
Glad 2009 SR works for you, but sad to hear you have issues with later stuff. I bought a 105 equipped winter bike in 2012 and I realised there was no reason at all to be putting up with things which are 'a pain to get right'. The SR got a new mech and acceptable shifting shortly after. I think its fine now, but that was it for me.

liam7020
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by liam7020

Any reason the new 12sp mechanical levers wouldn't work with a 12sp cassette and the existing derailleurs? Campag will probably say no and it might not be perfect but I'd wager it might be doable.
Tarmac SL6 & Campag Record EPS https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 0&t=153968

"Sometimes you don't need a plan. You just need big balls." Tom Boonen

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

bm0p700f wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:38 pm
Also who says road bikes will stay 130mm. They have made a groupset that will work with 135mm spacing too and I except road rim brake bikes to move to 135mm spacing and possibly through axles (142x12mm) before too long. This groupset is about creating a platform that cope with the new trends and standard that are probably on the horizon. That way they can update rather than reinvent.
I don't expect this at all because there isn't a good reason for it. 135mm spacing on a rim-brake bike doesn't solve any problems. It doesn't ease the transition for manufacturers or consumers from rim-brakes to disc-brakes. Manufacturers will still have to make rim-brake and disc-specific frames. They'd still have manufacture rim-brake specific hubs (or use disc hubs with pointlessly worse bracing angles.) Consumers on the other hand would be stuck with rim-brake bikes that aren't compatible with existing wheelsets.

So what's the point? QR and 130mm rear spacing and rim-brake bikes will fade away all at once...why try to stick lipstick on a pig?

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havana
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by havana

No tubes, how will the pro's handle that? Use old Bora's with new stickers? Or just "old"Bora's?
Last edited by havana on Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Most "innovations" in cycling are solutions for non-existing problems.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

havana wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:22 pm
No tubes, how will the pro's handle that? Use old Bora's with new stickers? Of just "old"Bora's?
Since for now those are TT oriented wheels, they should be running tubeless during TTs. It's the one aspect of the World Tour where flatting is not an option.

Either way, tubeless is 5w faster according to their whitepaper...even with a ~300g weight penalty for similar depth wheels+tires. Do the math ;)

305w @ 75.3kg system weight = 4.05w/kg
300w @ 75.0kg system weight = 4.00w/kg

A heavier rider at higher w/kg is ALWAYS faster uphill, downhill or on a flat.

ooo
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by ooo

campy 12sp cassettes vs 11/10/9sp cassettes:

Image
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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

TL;DR version

If you are sensitive to missing the 16t cog, 12-speed is nice.

Zakalwe
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by Zakalwe

Those cassettes are a missed opportunity, an extra sprocket but bigger jumps than my 12-25. I’d love a 12 speed 12-27 which doesn’t lose the 16. An 11, 29, or 32 is pretty much dead weight where I live

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micky
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by micky

Interesting curiosities from an interview with the Product Manager;

- 12s idea started from Pros asking for 16 cog
- no single chainring groupset in planned at least for now with 12s
- no more lower range Xenon/Mirage kind of groupsets
- no more pedals or things like powermeter due to too many patents (EPS chanrging point was an headache due to patents) and not worth due to costs of development

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

micky wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:14 pm
Interesting curiosities from an interview with the Product Manager;

- 12s idea started from Pros asking for 16 cog
- no single chainring groupset in planned at least for now with 12s
- no more lower range Xenon/Mirage kind of groupsets
- no more pedals or things like powermeter due to too many patents (EPS chanrging point was an headache due to patents) and not worth due to costs of development
Yep! Battery patents are funnily heavy influencers on electronic groupset design. SRAM is the ONLY company that can mount a battery directly to the derailleur. This prevents any other company from going fully wireless without really thinking outside the box (see Shimano's own patent on charging rear derailleurs with a dynamo pulley wheel.)

Also that 16t cog is so funny in its important, isn't it?

morrisond
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by morrisond

As a Campy only rider I'm sad to say these new parts are really ugly...

That RD is Hideous. These new parts are going to look terrible on Steel Frames - but I guess that is what Potenza and Centaur silver are for.

I wish they had changed the inner Thumb shifter to Potenza style - it really is a lot more comfortable. I have been riding it on my Winter Bike with Potenza Ho all winter - I didn't miss EPS at all - in fact it felt so close to EPS I didn't miss EPS,

I guess Chorus has gone the way of the Dodo bird, and they will only have 4 groups in the Future - SR, Record, Potenza, Centaur.

No need to do anything else.
Last edited by morrisond on Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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