Campagnolo 12-Speed

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
cmoi
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:38 pm
Location: France

by cmoi

Does someone know if the 12s campagnolo rear derailleur can work with a 11s campagnolo groupset ?
(I want to change my short cage 11s rear derailleur by a long cage and therefore consider buying a 12s rear derailleur if it work properly)
Thanks

bm0p700f
in the industry
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
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by bm0p700f

cable pull is different. so no it wont work.


cmoi
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:38 pm
Location: France

by cmoi

OK thanks

graeme_f_k
Shop Owner / Manufacturer
Posts: 349
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Location: UK
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by graeme_f_k

Magnum wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:36 pm
Are those Cannondales 2019 models or just frames that were built up with Campagnolo groupsets?
My understanding is that 'Dale have ranged 12s
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC

graeme_f_k
Shop Owner / Manufacturer
Posts: 349
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 12:21 pm
Location: UK
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by graeme_f_k

cmoi wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:21 pm
Does someone know if the 12s campagnolo rear derailleur can work with a 11s campagnolo groupset ?
(I want to change my short cage 11s rear derailleur by a long cage and therefore consider buying a 12s rear derailleur if it work properly)
Thanks
No. As bm0p700f points out, cable pull is wrong, plus the jockey cage is much too narrow to take an 11s chain.
If you have a CH, RE or SR 2015 or later set of shifters, use a CH, RE or SR HO medium cage rear mech.
If you have a Potenza set of shifters, use a Potenza medium cage rear mech.

If you have pre 2015 shifters, there is not a properly-compatible RD that will let you run bigger than a 29T sprocket (and in that case, you should not rin an 11T top) although there are some set-ups that may and may not "work" ... the question is always what compromises in exactly how well the system works you are willing to make.
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC

mag
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

Anyone heard anything about the 12s Power2Max crankset development status? Like any estimation of the availability? I asked them some time ago, but they didn't want to share much. Maybe someone knows a bit more?
Right now I'm about to decide whether to purchase the standard Campy crankset, or wait a little longer for P2M. I can wait for a few weeks, but don't want to wait for months.

ParisCarbon
Posts: 1157
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

mag wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:18 pm
Anyone heard anything about the 12s Power2Max crankset development status? Like any estimation of the availability? I asked them some time ago, but they didn't want to share much. Maybe someone knows a bit more?
Right now I'm about to decide whether to purchase the standard Campy crankset, or wait a little longer for P2M. I can wait for a few weeks, but don't want to wait for months.
I wouldnt expect anything "soon" If the pros were pushing the 12 mech you probably would have seen it by now.. but they are all still running 11s and waiting for 12s EPS before switchin everything!


Here is an email response from them on May 31...
The existing Campagnolo power meter will not work with the new 12 speed
as it is a complete re-design. Something is in the works but there is no
timeline as to when it will be ready.

Best regards

Evan

mag
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

They hinted they might get it to work by just redesigning the chainrings in order to match the new specifiations. But no solid information whether it's the way they're really going or they're completely redesigning the crankset.
If it would be just those chainrings that might be not that far away.

ome rodriguez
Posts: 350
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:16 am

by ome rodriguez

ome rodriguez wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:52 am
Here are the weights of the super record 12 speed.

Image
52/36t 172.5mm
Image

Image
Image
11-32r
Image
Image
Rimbrakes regular mount.

Image

11-29t cassette.

Image

ParisCarbon
Posts: 1157
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

mag wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:54 pm
They hinted they might get it to work by just redesigning the chainrings in order to match the new specifiations. But no solid information whether it's the way they're really going or they're completely redesigning the crankset.
If it would be just those chainrings that might be not that far away.
I find it hard to believe that P2Max would design a chainring..I know Id be wanting the Campy 12s specific ring, its probably got specific ramps etc designed into it... I thought the actual crankarms are supplied to SRM and P2Max by Campy, but I could be wrong...

robertbb
Posts: 573
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

By comparison, my 11s Chorus groupset actual weights on my kitchen scales before I built my bike:

Shifters = 21g lighter than 12s SR
FD= 1g lighter than 12s SR
RD = 5g heavier than 12s SR
Brakes = 17g lighter than 12s SR (I have single pivot rear)
Crank (172.5 @ 50/34 ) = 47g heavier than 12s SR
Cassette = 15g heavier than 12s SR

So Chorus 11 is a measly 28 grams heavier overall than Super Record 12. Sure hope that extra cog really means something :noidea:
It's ALL about the bike.

RobertBB's CyclePlanner Spreadsheet:
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 8&t=152263

mag
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

ParisCarbon wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:54 pm
I find it hard to believe that P2Max would design a chainring..I know Id be wanting the Campy 12s specific ring, its probably got specific ramps etc designed into it... I thought the actual crankarms are supplied to SRM and P2Max by Campy, but I could be wrong...
They could theoretically co-develop them with Campy (basically bring together their specs and then have them manufactured by Campy, do some testing & refinements if needed and produce them in larger quantities). But who knows what they're going to do.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@robertbb Yes the 12s effectively elliminated that weight difference between those groupsets. Moreover the 12s Record is now even heavier than your 11s Chorus.

It will be interesting to see if:
- they release 12s Chorus, how much it's going to weigh and how much it's going to cost
- they make lighter (partially Titanium) 12s cassettes which should get the weight a little down, closer to that it used to be (let's say ~50g saving here, depending on how many cogs they'd make from Titanium, if they'll dare to make 7 cogs from Titanium the difference could be bigger)

Note: Your crank is 50/34@172.5 while ome rodriguez's is 52/36@172,5. Comparing exactly the same sizes should give some more advantage to the 12s SR - about 20g.

That could mean the difference to the 11s Chorus to rise to approx. 48g with the currently available cassette, or 98g with the hypothetical Ti cassette

Comparing with the 11s SR (11-29T cassettes, the 11s SR one weighs around 220g) it's currently heavier by some 58g and the Ti cassette could get it down to just 8g. Not bad - if they'll decide to produce that Ti cassette.

But previously the weight differences between the 11s SR, Record and Chorus were smaller, about 100g between each. Now the difference between the 12s SR and Record is almost the same as it was between the 11s SR and Chorus. That, weight-wise, makes some of the lower level groupsets almost redundant. They could ditch one of them and release something virtually in-between the Chorus and Potenza for example (and call it Chorus or Potenza - whatever they like) and then only Centaur. That's what I'm curious about - what they'll do with those groupsets now.

ParisCarbon
Posts: 1157
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

It would be nice if there was a 12 ring for 11 .. the srm pm would then work as well... fun times coming. ..

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mpulsiv
Posts: 1275
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm

by mpulsiv

Didn’t they discontinue Chorus?
I can’t find a single word about 12 speed Chorus but it mentioned in the wiki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campagnolo

I’ll be patiently waiting for Potenza EPS. Wait, who am I kidding?
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder


robertbb
Posts: 573
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

They didn't discontinue Chorus:

https://www.campagnolo.com/AU/en/Mechan ... horus/road

It remains to be seen what they'll do with it though. Maybe it'll turn into an alloy 12 speed? Maybe it'll remain their flagship 11s groupset?
It's ALL about the bike.

RobertBB's CyclePlanner Spreadsheet:
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 8&t=152263

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