Campagnolo 12-Speed

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

ParisCarbon wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:05 pm
So just saw this on CN.. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/campagn ... de-france/
Interesting they say (and it looks like) Greipel is using just a standard Super Record crank not the HO model (CN is historic for getting all their info backwards in my opinion, but whatever) Anyways... this would effectively change the chainline by that ever so famous 1mm we've been talking about.... soooo this goes to possibly show that the 11s cranks do work fine.. and the SRM should be fine as well on a 12 with rings? If its good enough for Greipel...
As a sometime team mech, my advice is ... don't look at what the pros do ... there are any number of things they could be testing and there is no guarantee whatever that what appears to be one thing, is not something else in disguise, for whatever reason. That's a good part of the reason that teams are sponsored - they are used as test beds to see "what if", yes, even the best sprinters, even at the TdF ...
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC


graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

beeatnik wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:45 pm
Mutual admiration, Cal.

So, here's what's a little confounding (weird) to me. That C59 has one of the few (2nd?) 12s Record groups in France. The shop which installed it must have an established relationship with Campagnolo. And, yet, based on the flickas posted here, the people who worked on that bike haven't cracked a Campagnolo manual since the introduction of C Record. Based on my experiences with 2015 Revolution I'm beginning to believe that the only competent Campagnolo wrenches are single client concerns, ie, home mechanics.
This is an oft-made error. Retailers, (with the exception of a limited number in Italy), don't have a direct relationship with Campagnolo, any more than they do Shimano, or SRAM.
They have a relationship with an importer-distributor. Importer-distributors are usually selling a variety of brands and in most cases (there are notable exceptions), they are not all-knowledgable about any one brand (Campagnolo in this example) as they simply have too many brands on hand for that to be possible.

Campagnolo's way around this is to have local branches like Campagnolo NA, France, Germany or Spain, or to have very trusted local resources who are treated like branches (ourselves in the UK, ICC in the Benelux) where the technicians are directly trained at Campagnolo. These guys are there to train and support the Service Centres (generally one or two per country) which are linked to the main import-distributor(s).

In order to qualify as a ProShop, a retailer needs training, generally conducted by the local branch, or I believe in some cases by the main distribution channel in that market (in France I believe only by Campagnolo France).

If a ProShop is unsure about an issue, their first point of reference is the documentation - both that provided with the components and / or freely available online, or that provided at the time they received their training (sometimes more detailed and extensive but often a "beta form" of the public documentation). The next step is to refer to a SC. If the SC is not sure / doesn't know, they should refer the matter to the local branch of Campagnolo, who are in direct and daily contact with the factory.

There are excellent Campagnoo mechanics all over the world in good, reputable businesses - but one of the key problems that faces the industry is that training costs money and the race to the lowest possible retail price precludes the possibility for retailers to engage in a proper training process. This feeds back up the supply chain. Hence, we end up with the (partially) blind leading the blind and no-one is happy. The consumer has kit that doesn't work properly, the retailer has an unhappy client and the manufacturer's brand is damaged because the consumer's experience of the product is poor. In my private opinion, online selling has materially worstened that position but now we are in that position, the fix is far from clear - but that is a whole other discussion. What is for sure is that problem solving online by commitee, where we are dealing with highly expensive, well designed and thoroughly tested products is not always helpful.
A Tech-Reps work is never done ...
Head Tech, Campagnolo main UK ASC

2lo8
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:32 am

by 2lo8

XCProMD wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:09 pm
I know the RD has been designed to be “self-adjusting” in pulley to cog distance but still there is a grub screw at the A-knuckle that sets the neutral position of the spring I was talking in my previous post.
I imagine that just means it's dual-sprung like older pre-shadow Shimano servo-pantograph/Simplex prestige derailers. I suppose despite the fixed number of cassettes it's meant to be compantible with, Campy felt the cassette wasn't linear enough for a single sprung derailer, hence the need for additional "self-adjusting" over the just having a slant parallelogram.
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ParisCarbon
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Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

graeme_f_k wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:52 pm
ParisCarbon wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:05 pm
So just saw this on CN.. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/campagn ... de-france/
Interesting they say (and it looks like) Greipel is using just a standard Super Record crank not the HO model (CN is historic for getting all their info backwards in my opinion, but whatever) Anyways... this would effectively change the chainline by that ever so famous 1mm we've been talking about.... soooo this goes to possibly show that the 11s cranks do work fine.. and the SRM should be fine as well on a 12 with rings? If its good enough for Greipel...
As a sometime team mech, my advice is ... don't look at what the pros do ... there are any number of things they could be testing and there is no guarantee whatever that what appears to be one thing, is not something else in disguise, for whatever reason. That's a good part of the reason that teams are sponsored - they are used as test beds to see "what if", yes, even the best sprinters, even at the TdF ...
Very true....

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Calnago
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by Calnago

It's not just the spacing of the chainrings that's of consequence, or even the altered chainline, it's also the new derailleur and the shifters as well... and how they move everything between the chainrings. For instance, there's now two distinct poistions that the front derailleur has when on the big ring. Prior to this, there was only one, no trim (which was great) and you could use all the cogs cleanly. So, if you just throw an 11sp crankset into a 12sp drivetrain, with the 12sp front derailleur and shifters, then there may be some incompatibilites there. I've a lot of unanswered questions in my own mind at the moment (many of the same ones I had when they came out with HO cranks, etc), which probably won't get resolved until I have a 12sp group to really test out for real. But I do have some ideas mulling about in my mind for sure.
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wingguy
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Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

zank wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:59 pm
You can see the stop in this pic. The black ano looks different than the carbon hanger. It still appears to me that the stop is in contact with the tab.
I'm totally with Cal on that one. I just squinted myself crosseyed and I can't see anything remotely conclusive (or even suggestive) in that pic. And since the pic from the other side definitely doesn't look like the link is in the right place, smart money still goes with it not being in the right place.

Edit: And now I've seen the next page. Wow!

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zank
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by zank

My depth perception was severly lacking.

XCProMD
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by XCProMD

2lo8 wrote:
XCProMD wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:09 pm
I know the RD has been designed to be “self-adjusting” in pulley to cog distance but still there is a grub screw at the A-knuckle that sets the neutral position of the spring I was talking in my previous post.
I imagine that just means it's dual-sprung like older pre-shadow Shimano servo-pantograph/Simplex prestige derailers. I suppose despite the fixed number of cassettes it's meant to be compantible with, Campy felt the cassette wasn't linear enough for a single sprung derailer, hence the need for additional "self-adjusting" over the just having a slant parallelogram.
Exactly. It’s the old Simplex principle, but in this case it’s here to make the system as foolproof and robust as possible

bruno2000
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Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:11 pm

by bruno2000

Does anyone tested the campagnolo 12speed chain on the current Rotor q-rings (which supposed to work with 11spd)

stang1
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:57 am

by stang1

Image

Not a rotor Q ring, but I'll be trialing this setup. Have tested to intentionally overthrow the chain on a bike stand with no issues.

note; the RD mech shifting is just damn good.

wingguy
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Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

One really good thing with this group (IMO) is that it's bought back some OE partnerships with major non-Italian brands. There are some hot looking bikes for 2019 :D

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robertbb
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

Those Cannondales have Bora 50's at back and 35's at front. Savvy.
It's ALL about the bike.

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bruno2000
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by bruno2000

stang1 wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:11 pm
Image

Not a rotor Q ring, but I'll be trialing this setup. Have tested to intentionally overthrow the chain on a bike stand with no issues.

note; the RD mech shifting is just damn good.
What chainring are you using? probably your chainrings are also suppose to work with 11spd?
I have Rotor crank too with Rotor q-rings. So noq or q might be no issues but will 11 or 12 spd be an issue?

stang1
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:57 am

by stang1

B.O.R Chainrings, and thats a 53/39

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Magnum
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Location: Kingston-upon-Thames, UK

by Magnum

Are those Cannondales 2019 models or just frames that were built up with Campagnolo groupsets?


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