Campagnolo 12-Speed

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Cemicar
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by Cemicar

I think going for 12 speed in off-road is indeed far safer than road, since almost all bikes use 135mm, 142mm or even 148mm hubs nowadays. They could have released 14 or 15 speed, but also became too conservative and ended up adding just another gear.

In road things are a bit different. Pretty much every hubs are still 130mm standard, so either 142-exclusive drivetrain or tight implementation like Campagnolo which I really hope Shimano and SRAM won't follow.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

130mm vs 135/142mm OLD has basically nothing to do with how many speeds are in your drivetrain. It was a necessary change because disc rotors forced bracing angles to narrow.

I don't think any of the groupset manufacturers are going to increase the width of the freehub. Chainlines would suffer too much. The only major chainline change I can see is for road BBs to widen by 5mm.


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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

TonyM wrote:
ultimobici wrote: Odd. We’re selling more Campagnolo than ever.


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In which country are located?
UK.


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themidge
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by themidge

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 4:38 am
I don't think any of the groupset manufacturers are going to increase the width of the freehub. Chainlines would suffer too much. The only major chainline change I can see is for road BBs to widen by 5mm.
I don't think even that will happen (wider BBs) because people like their narrow q-factors more than they do on mountain bikes. On MTBs stability is very important, so a wider stance isn't so bad, but on the road a narrow, efficient stance is fine because we aren't in much danger of falling off by ourselves. 5mm isn't so far though, will it make much difference to chainline anyway?
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Miller
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by Miller

zank wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 3:08 am
Doing away with Powershift like they have with Powertorque would be nice.
Powershift is absolutely fine. You just tap the tab and you get a shift and it takes no time at all to repeat. It feels very similar to EPS in that regard.

2lo8
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by 2lo8

zank wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 3:08 am
Doing away with Powershift like they have with Powertorque would be nice.
Powershift with EPS type levers is fine though. It seemed cheap when you had to deal with the ultrashift position lever, without any of the advantages of ultra shift. My experience is I can double/triple tap a ratchet release mechanism as fast as it will shift, and never overshift. On ultrashift, overshifting happens on occasion, and ends up taking more concentration and seems slower as I remind myself not to overshift. The EPS style button makes it even easier to use.
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morrisond
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Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

I'm a fan of Powershift - I have Potenza Ho (and SR MEch and SR EPS). As stated above a lot less misshifts - it works and feels like EPS.

I'm looking forward to trying 12sp and seeing if the new thumb shifter is closer to Potenza - if then - Perfect! I just hope it shifts as positively.

c60rider
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Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

morrisond wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 9:15 pm
I'm a fan of Powershift - I have Potenza Ho (and SR MEch and SR EPS). As stated above a lot less misshifts - it works and feels like EPS.

I'm looking forward to trying 12sp and seeing if the new thumb shifter is closer to Potenza - if then - Perfect! I just hope it shifts as positively.
When I tried it at Bespoked last month they feel very similar to existing 11 speed. This was only with a bike static so I was only shifting up and down 2 clicks and not actually changing gear with it. In hindsight I should have got someone to lift the rear up and spin the pedals. It will be interesting if they've improved the snappyness to the changes and how smooth those maximum smoothness cables make it feel when actually riding. And if there's any real discernible difference aside from having an extra sprocket and the psychological effect of knowing you're on 12!

wingguy
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by wingguy

Cemicar wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 3:20 am
I think going for 12 speed in off-road is indeed far safer than road, since almost all bikes use 135mm, 142mm or even 148mm hubs nowadays. They could have released 14 or 15 speed, but also became too conservative and ended up adding just another gear.

In road things are a bit different. Pretty much every hubs are still 130mm standard,
Errrmmm nope. Road disc QR bikes are all 135, and road disc TA bikes are all 142, just like mountain bikes. The extra space isn't left vacant for the freehub, it's used up by the disc.
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 4:38 am
I don't think any of the groupset manufacturers are going to increase the width of the freehub. Chainlines would suffer too much. The only major chainline change I can see is for road BBs to widen by 5mm.
I got to speak with a lead Cervelo engineer a few months ago and he said they were hoping (and bigger manufacturers were pushing) for road boost became a thing. From their point of view it's about tyre clearance, chainstay width and chainline with different length stays.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

wingguy wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 10:12 pm

I got to speak with a lead Cervelo engineer a few months ago and he said they were hoping (and bigger manufacturers were pushing) for road boost became a thing. From their point of view it's about tyre clearance, chainstay width and chainline with different length stays.
If that happens I see no choice but to widen the bottom brackets. Narrow q-factors are overrated anyway. Even with 2mm in pedal spindle spacers on each side, I have a platform offset of around +4mm. Do people have weird valgus knees or something.

claus
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by claus

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 3:12 am
Narrow q-factors are overrated anyway.
"All general statements are wrong."
Your's is one of those.

Some people need a narrow q-factor (I'm one of them).

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

claus wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 3:17 am

Some people need a narrow q-factor (I'm one of them).

Do you use orthotics or wedges? As I understand it, riding extremely knock-kneed / knee valgus is something PTs/fitters aim to correct with those implements, not deal with by narrowing q-factor. So yes there are some people with very weird anatomic proportions that might need a narrow q-factor, but I think a lot of others fall into the trap of using a bludgeon instead of a finer instrument to address knee tracking issues.

Orthotics have the added benefit of working off the bike and being portable in general.

claus
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by claus

No, I simply have a "slight" build (including narrow hips) (e.g, Castelli XXS fits me fairly ok).

wingguy
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by wingguy

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 3:12 am
wingguy wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 10:12 pm

I got to speak with a lead Cervelo engineer a few months ago and he said they were hoping (and bigger manufacturers were pushing) for road boost became a thing. From their point of view it's about tyre clearance, chainstay width and chainline with different length stays.
If that happens I see no choice but to widen the bottom brackets.
Yeah, that's where you get the tyre clearance and chainstay width.

natiedean24
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by natiedean24

Daniel1975 wrote:I don’t know what they are thinking, but they’re losing customers. I’ve been riding campy for >25years, but my next groupset will be DuraAce Di2. And I know more people that think like this.
Unnessecary 12sp, more weight, more sensitive for setup, more money. What are they thinking....?
I’ve been on Campy since 2000 - 18 years. I’m almost certain my next bike will have Shimano on it.

They aren’t good at meeting the desires of their broadest base of customers.


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