Campagnolo 12-Speed

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
mag
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

Re MTB tech making it to the road - @bm0p700f is quite right. It's really happening - regardless of whether some people like it, or how useful it is. I also don't think it's good progression in several aspects, but it's still happening.
ergott wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:52 pm
There's a growing divergence between road race bikes and the road bike for the average club rider/Fondo rider. I happen to like it. A lot of riders don't benefit from riding pro tour level bikes.

I'm glad both are being offered side by side right now.
The question is whether that will be the case in the years to come. I hope there will be some choice, even though pretty limited to some minor/boutique brands. Let's see.
ParisCarbon wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:55 pm
I keep opening this thread hoping to read something about EPS, or see a spy shot.. and all I keep seeing is how the gear ratios suck :lol:
Given how successfully did they manage to keep the 12-speed stuff secret I wouldn't hold my hopes high for some EPS info before it's officially announced. The word is that they're working on it and it should be announced by the end of this year. But maybe some of the Campy sponsored pro teams will test som EPS prototypes in actual raced and we'll get some sneak pics of that...

Re gear ratios - yes, the last few pages are full of just that. :lol:
I guess that due to their limited engineeering/production capacities they had to prioritize stuff here and based on what their sponsored teams require + what sells the most they selected 2 cassettes to start with. I'm quite optimistic regarding another ones to come out later. Also the current ones are Record level at the best, so I expect a lighter SR level ones to be released as well.

wingguy
Posts: 4193
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

istigatrice wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:25 pm
Do you honestly believe that sealant is going to work at 80-100psi?
For a point puncture on the tread? Yes I do. I believe it will, because I know it does.

For a cut or sidewall puncture, no. But if I've just eliminated 90% of the flats I get, I'm not going to feel too hard done by because I'm still vulnerable to the other 10%.


morrisond
Posts: 780
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

Does anyone know if this will require a new Chain Tool?

I have one of the Ubber expensive Campy 11sp ones and I know it's unlikely it will work with 12sp but one can hope!

neeb
Posts: 437
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:19 pm

by neeb

morrisond wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:47 pm
Does anyone know if this will require a new Chain Tool?

I have one of the Ubber expensive Campy 11sp ones and I know it's unlikely it will work with 12sp but one can hope!
It’ll probably need to be rejoined in the heart of a neutron star using a special pin forged from one of the dwarfish rings of power.

User avatar
Asteroid
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:43 pm
Location: Los Angeles, California

by Asteroid

No doubt, Shimano and SRAM will follow suit with their own 12-speed.
Wonder, however, if everyone will skip 13-speed. You know, like floors on an elevator.
"Yep, just got the new 14-speed gruppo. Doggone if I count only 13 cogs back there!" :smartass:
Oldbie

ooo
Posts: 598
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraphobia

14 is even more unlucky in asia
'

Butcher
Shop Owner
Posts: 851
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am

by Butcher

I'm on board as soon as the EPS12 comes out. The more the merrier is what I say.

MyM3Coupe
Posts: 158
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:32 pm

by MyM3Coupe

morrisond wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:47 pm
I have one of the Ubber expensive Campy 11sp ones and I know it's unlikely it will work with 12sp but one can hope!
Hopefully, they join the 21st century and provide a link like every other manufacturer.

jih
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:54 pm

by jih

neeb wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:58 am
Given I can get up 20% gradients in 52-32t
That sounds very high geared for that grade.

That gear gives 12.5km/h at 60rpm. Nobody really wants to go below 60rpm.

12.5km/h up a 20% is 540w for a 65kg rider on a 7kg bike.

There aren't very many 65kg riders who can put out 540w at 60rpm for any length of time. And if you're heavier than that, it gets worse.

I guess if it's a very short ramp, sure - momentum coming into it will help a bit too. But why wouldn't you just use a lower gear and spin a bit more if you're climbing those sorts of grades?

FWIW, I did Hardknot pass (33% for about 15 minutes) on 34x30, and would not have said no to a lower gear!

AJS914
Posts: 2259
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Surely this is the start of a new platform for Campy. I think more cassettes will be offered and eventually they will eventually offer Chorus 12. The cassette I want them to make is 12-32.

Personally I'll be on 11 speed for a few more years at least so I'll wait out them working out all the kinks.

mag
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

jih wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:42 pm
That gear gives 12.5km/h at 60rpm. Nobody really wants to go below 60rpm.
What was Jan Ullrich's cadence when he used to grind his way up some mountain? You really wouldn't want to go below that.

Re Chorus 12s - it will most likely appear in the future, however I think it wouldn't be very bad idea to ditch one of their product lines as they've got quite a lot of them already.

Svetty
Posts: 513
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:06 pm
Location: Yorkshire - God's Own Country

by Svetty

I only have one bike on 11speed, all the others are stlll 10. Funnily enough I ride at the same speed as my mates on their 11 speed bikes.....

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 4049
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

jih really no-one want to go below 60 rpm? I do all the time. I will happily climb at 40 rpm on the road bike. I weight 85kg too. normally This is the point I have being trying to make not all cyclists are the same. Just because some like spinning in a narrow range of cadance others like me are as happy at 40 rpm as I am at 90 rpm. Although for pace on a climb 60 to 70 rpm is a about right for me. Climbing at higher cadance does not make me any quicker. Last year 24hr TT was at around 60 rpm average maybe less.

I suspect the narrow sprocket spacing for 12 speed has lead Campagnolo to put the top jockey wheel close to the cassette which dictates the profile of the cassettes that can be used (i.e 3T jumps at the end) for the pallegrogram they have gone for. If v4 eps is like v3 in that 12T is the minium then 12-32T cassette will appear with this.

c60rider
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

morrisond wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:47 pm
Does anyone know if this will require a new Chain Tool?

I have one of the Ubber expensive Campy 11sp ones and I know it's unlikely it will work with 12sp but one can hope!
I'm going to a bike show at the weekend and Campy are down to be there. I'm going armed with a load of questions and I'm expecting/ hoping there's a 12 speed bike to ride! The chain tool is one of those questions. It's so tight on the 11 speed I doubt it'll fit. Previous 10 had it's own tool as well so that's another £150 odd to add to the price :roll:

wingguy
Posts: 4193
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

jih wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:42 pm
neeb wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:58 am
Given I can get up 20% gradients in 52-32t
That sounds very high geared for that grade.
It is. In my early 20s I rode everywhere in Dartmoor (plenty of 20% and 25% pitches to be found) with a 39/25 low gear (fairly similar ratio) and yeah, you can get up anything with it if you want to... but why would you if you don't need to? It's not faster, it's definitely not better for long rides with multiple climbs and multiple steep pitches, and I'm not sure if my knees have ever forgiven me.

On the plus side you tone your shoulders and abs from how hard you end up wrenching on the handlebars but there are easier ways :lol:
FWIW, I did Hardknot pass (33% for about 15 minutes)
Ahhhh, nope.

Hardknot might peak at that gradient, but its average is less than half of it. Don't get me wrong, it's still a ridiculous bit of road, but 33% sustained would put it in a whole other realm of suffering.


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