Campagnolo 12-Speed

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

octav wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:55 am
After all I will complete the sale this week.
I already have a custom crankset 46/33 FSA K-Foce with 11 speed chainring so it should work.
Question is now should I go with Chorus 12 or Record 12 with 11-34 Chorus chain/cassette?
The weight is almost the same, it would be just the bling I guess.
I suspect the front shifting will be poor.
You are outside 2 different parameters for the FD to work well, three if you include correct ramping and pinning on the big chainring.
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Butcher
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by Butcher

I've always wondered why changing the drivetrain with a bunch of manufacturers is a good thing. I get chains I guess but when it comes to high end things, the factory has probably got everything to work well with their components.

I get it may be a weight weenie thing but if the drivetrain ain't happy the rider is not happy.

Geoff
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by Geoff

While it isn't for me, the newest iteration of the mycampy app (2.4) includes sequential shifting: https://www.campagnolo.com/IT/it/CampyW ... mpy_app_24

joejack951
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by joejack951

Butcher wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:06 pm
I've always wondered why changing the drivetrain with a bunch of manufacturers is a good thing. I get chains I guess but when it comes to high end things, the factory has probably got everything to work well with their components.

I get it may be a weight weenie thing but if the drivetrain ain't happy the rider is not happy.
Sometimes weight, but also gearing and aesthetics. I don't believe Campy has ever made a 46/33 crank.

michael
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by michael

Totally true. We used to race with 53 x 11-21 "flat cassette" on the flats and 39-42 x 12-25 "mountain cassette" in the mountains like the Alpes, Pyrenees, Italy etc.


I actually feeled ashamed back then... buying a seperate 26T cog for training purposes in the Alpes :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

And showing up in a flat or hilly race with anything larger then a 23T was NOT DONE.

synchronicity wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:32 pm
Often we don't appreciate what we've got until we've lost it. That's how I feel with the 23T, 25T and even now the 27T. :( :cry:

Well I don't care what gear campagnolo wants me to use, I still prefer closer ratio gears, yes even in the upper half of the cassette, especially in the upper half of the cassette, which are the cogs that I used to do long (5% gradient) climbs with. If I'm on a 1 hour climb, say, I want to be able to adjust my rythm slightly now and then. That would be a bonus. Not be stuck in the same gear, only to be carrying around dinner-plate-sized sprockets that I won't ever use. That's what more cogs allows one to do! It's not only about having a wider total gear range. They are completely separate issues and some people obviously prioritise these things differently. :smartass:

Maybe if the hill climb is above 8 to 12%, well okay, I can see the logic of having a 29T cassette.
And at around 15-20%, absolutely I would use the 29T cassette and maybe even the 32/34T. :thumbup:
But why carry around a 29T, a 32T tooth or even a 34T if the terrain doesn't justify it?

I find it fascinating the attitude of all the [smug] people who basically take the position "the pros do it this way", "campagnolo knows best", "it's done for this reason", insinuating that others "don't know what they're talking about" (or whatever). How quickly they seem to simply gloss over these issues and dismiss the concerns of others. Why is my opinion any less valid? :noidea:

I think there's only one real reason that more cassette options aren't offered. And it has nothing to do with matching the cassette to the terrain. Sure, some people think "there's no need for closer spaced cassettes with 12 speed". But in reality it's more about the cost of designing and producing many different cassettes with different sprocket carriers. It's about maximising profit. That's all it is. Who knows? Maybe Campagnolo doesn't think enough people will buy closer-spaced cassettes. But they don't "know" that. Do they? They've never offered these huge cassettes and the standard ones simultaneously. They've simply eliminated all of the normal cassette ratios from their entire range.

(it also might have something to do with the extra overhang by the last cog, and the limitations caused by the proximity of the derailleur cage to the spokes)

And so they've made a business decision. And I for one think it's a very poor decision.

Now the trouble is that in this day and age, people want more choice. We've come to expect more choice. And I don't just mean having 12 gears to choose from on a ride as opposed to 11 or 10 or 9 or 8 ... Some people also want more choice when it comes time to selecting from the various cassettes options. Just because "pros do it a certain way" is actually irrelevant. Campagnolo does not exist to serve pros. Campagnolo exists to serve the millions of other cyclists around the world.

At the end of the day, I pay to put campagnolo on my bike. Pros don't pay. They get paid.

If you ask me, Campagnolo is missing a great opportunity and that is people might even decide to buy TWO [or more] cassettes as opposed to one.
A "mountain range" one and "a flat one". I would buy two or more, yes. Definitely. But in order to do that, they first have to have make the darn things! :smartass:

octav
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by octav

I totally agree with you guys to go with the full gruppo, I always did like this.
On my C60 I have SR12, on my CX-Zero I have SR11. THe only bike is this Pinarello FCX with FSA-SR11 mix. I already sold the SR11 so I need to decide if I go full Chorus 12(including cranks) or Record12 plus FSA Cranks.

michael
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by michael

36x32?? :shock: Should be allowed on a MTB only.

Nefarious86 wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:02 pm
ultimobici wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:01 am
Guess the massive demand for closer ratio cassettes has evaporated?


So the pros on 36 32 in the high mountains are doing it wrong?
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Last edited by michael on Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.


tarkus
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by tarkus

hi guys, i need your help. urgently ;)
i am in the verge of installing the chain of my new campa eps 12sp.
unfortunately when trying to size it (smallest sprocket, smallest chainset) i seem to be "in-between-sizes" if you know what I mean.

the 10-15mm distance between chain and pulley is out of reach and "at-least" suggestion in the manual of 3 or 22mm is slightly over or under done.

for which side of the spectrum do i go? 3 or 22?

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Kjetil
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by Kjetil

You should go by chain stay length.
Read instructions.
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tarkus
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by tarkus

well...i guess...do not trust the internet. read the manual which is delivered with it ;) thanks

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DaveS
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by DaveS

Campy has the latest chain length recommendations on their website. It still amounts to using the maximum length that creates a little movement of the RD cage when the ends af the chain are brought together, in the little/little combination. If the chain isn't loose on the lower section of chain, all should be well. The little/little should not be used anyway. Shifting to the 12T cog takes up 1/4 inch of chain.

For my chainstay length, the 54 inch chain that's recommended for my 48/32 crank work perfectly. I hope that users are measuring the chain length, not actually counting links.

ParisCarbon
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by ParisCarbon

Kjetil wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:19 pm
You should go by chain stay length.
Read instructions.
In the manual it says to use chainstay length if using mechanical.. strange for EPS it still says use the 10-15mm rule... I remember I was in the same boat as you when I setup my Tarmacs and Venge... If I recall I ended up taking 4 links out...2 links out and the chain would have been slapping the bottom of the RD in the small combo (which you should never be in) but then 6 out was probably 20+mm of difference...

https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... 9_2019.pdf

See page 28/29 for English version on length

tarkus
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by tarkus

but the manual which comes with the chain (on paper ;) says the thing with the chainstays. 4 links anyway.
thats what i took. then screwed it up with the link. just ordered one ;)

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bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Remember campagnolo makes what sells. While I also like 53/42t and 12-27t gearings I am in a minority most people prefer a lower gearing so that what gets made and a groupset is made to work well with that wide range gearing.

In fact as I have got older I prefer a 29t final position sprocket.

Even with 11 speed I am selling almost no 25t finish cassettes or 23 or 27t but lots of 28t, 29t, 32 and some 34t.

So why would campagnolo make there 12 speed groupset for cassettes no one buys. There is no significant demand for close ratio gearing any more. I love 52/44 and 13-18t 2x6 speed. Changing gear has little effect as the old 80-s campag kits doesn't exactly shift like eps.

Of course for those that love close ratio gearing there single.speed. every gear is the right gear on 1x1.

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