Campagnolo 12-Speed

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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cveks
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by cveks

ultimobici wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:01 am
I find it amusing that so many people are bleating about not having a 11-25 or 11-27. Shimano still offers 11-25 yet, even though I work for a dealer in the SE of England where anything bigger is generally unnecessary, we only sell 11-27 in volume when they are in sale and rarely sell 11-25 ever. Looking at most pro set ups and one sees they almost exclusively use an 11-28 or 11-29. The days of hunting for the right gear died with 11 speed.


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I did yesterday 80 km ride with climbs up to 8% on 11-25 SRAM Force cassette. Never felt that I need more behind.

34 - 32/30 is needed for me when I climb on climbs 10-20%. There I suffer because I weight 85 kgs and I like to ride on high cadence between 95-100 rpm.

So best universal setup for me is 34-32 . Never tried 34-34 I know you can get that with Ultegra but not with Sram Red Wifli where maximum is 32 cogs behind.

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cveks
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by cveks

ultimobici wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:28 pm
neeb wrote:
ultimobici wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:01 am
I find it amusing that so many people are bleating about not having a 11-25 or 11-27. Shimano still offers 11-25 yet, even though I work for a dealer in the SE of England where anything bigger is generally unnecessary, we only sell 11-27 in volume when they are in sale and rarely sell 11-25 ever. Looking at most pro set ups and one sees they almost exclusively use an 11-28 or 11-29. The days of hunting for the right gear died with 11 speed.


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I find it amusing that people “in the industry” continue to ignore logical arguments on the grounds of “what sells” or what the pros use.
I’m not ignoring the logic at all. I’m just in a position to see that the sales trend is to make 11-23 , then 11-25 & next 11-27 very difficult to justify investing in. We just sold our last 11-23 SR11 cassette. It had to be discounted to get rid of it as a line. We had 5 on the shelf in 2011. They all sold in the last 4 months. 11-25 is becoming similarly dead. We still have stock of 12-25 in many models. It is a single digit sale item too. Sram 11-26 only sells now that we’re clearing them. That’s in all iterations 10 & 11 speed. 11-28 & 11-32 are the ones that sell in volume.

That is completely logical.

Average rider have just one bike and he struggles on hills ,hate them , and want to have best possible setup he can when he must climb them.

Average rider doesnt own 3 bikes , with 5 cassettes and wheels like me for example.

I bought on ebay 2 sram force 11-25 cassettes on sale for just $30 each because of that . Average Joe wants 11-28 11-30 or best 11-32.
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corky
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by corky

Anyone heard when 12s eps record might be appearing?

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

corky wrote:Anyone heard when 12s eps record might be appearing?
Don’t think they are doing one.


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dgdracing
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by dgdracing

More interesting would be a Chorus 12s EPS group. Any rumors around that one?

carhillclimb
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by carhillclimb

I am one of those people who do not like the factory cassette options. So much so that the only bike I have with an actual cassette is my winter snow and ice road bike which has an old Shimano XTR 11-34 9 speed cassette on it. For example, on a double chainring road bike I want 11-13-14-15-16-17-18-19... There is zero desire for the 12. A triple might use 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-20-22-25, but that again is not a cassette.

So whatever close ratio cassette the manufacturers sell, I will not buy, and using those sales will not work as market research. Also now that I change chains when the Park chain guage hits 1.0, I get at least 4 chains per cogset, which on the dry bikes is 3k miles per chain and 12k miles per cogset, and at 6k miles per year and 5 front-line bikes that is not a lot of cog swapping due to wear.

I use shimano freehub compatible cogsets made from Shimano Miche and Marchisio cogs. I use these on 9, 10, 11 and 12 speed setups with campagnolo and shimano shifters, both cable and di2/eps (although my eps setup is now in a box, not on a bike). I mix derailleur and shifter brand as needed; one of the best shifting bikes I have is my Ritchey Breakaway with Campagnolo 11 speed shifters and an SRAM Red 10 speed rear derailleur filed to tune the shift ratio and a shimano 105 front that came on the previous iteration of the bike. The SRAM Red was originally on the superlight bike, but it did not work with powercordz so it got moved over (the superlight now has one of those carbon-sports lightweight super-expensive out of production things).

Also I believe I also mentiond that I use things like 46-26 chainring pairs on several bikes, which also works quite well, assuming that you are not riding in a group and are willing to take the time needed to do the front shift and assuming you are NOT using shimano cable shifters and assuming you are willing to work on the shifting mechanics, both overshift prevention and upshift tuning. And also assuming you are willing to pay for cranks like Lightning, or make your own offset crank bolts to put small chainrings where they were not intended. And also assuming that you are not a 1000 watt person, who both does not need this and also will break stuff. And also maybe you need to have misspent your youth where your only bike was a braked fixed gear (with a brake you can go flat-out down hills where the rear wheel is hopping off the ground because your legs cannot keep up, and expect to keep riding without crashing).

I had a Zipp disk with 12 rear cogs at 11 speed spacing. (I have no power any more and the whole joy of a time trial bike is the speed, and with no power there is no speed, so that bike got disassembled to make space in the bike room for another bike I would actually ride. The Zipp disk meant that the complete bike would not hang from the garage ceiling.)
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fogman
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by fogman

I was reading that Chorus 12 has 3 cassette options. 11-29, 11-32, and 11-34. The 11-29 and 11-32 are compatible with Record and Super Record 12 but the 11-34 is not. Does the Chorus 12 rear derailleur have a longer cage than the R/SR 12 derailleurs?


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It's all downhill from here, except for the uphills.

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

fogman wrote:I was reading that Chorus 12 has 3 cassette options. 11-29, 11-32, and 11-34. The 11-29 and 11-32 are compatible with Record and Super Record 12 but the 11-34 is not. Does the Chorus 12 rear derailleur have a longer cage than the R/SR 12 derailleurs?


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Doesn’t look like they are any different. That said, cage length has little to do with maximum sprocket size.


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Kjetil
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by Kjetil

I have read earlier that R and SR RDs should be compatible with that 34 top. Also the block with the three largest sprockets shall be made available separately, so that any 12s 11-32 cassette can be converted into an 11-34.
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cveks
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by cveks

robertbb wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:25 am
ultimobici wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:17 pm
neeb wrote:
Nefarious86 wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:47 am
It's pretty easy tho... Stick with SR11 and enjoy the ranges you love, competitive weights against the 12s gear and cheaper consumables :)

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That’s exactly what I’m doing (well, Record rather than SR). Let’s see how long I can get the bits. It just bugs me a little that I’m now a retro grouch through no choice of my own, it doesn’t fit with my self image.. :wink:
You’ll be fine. Campag have only just stopped 8 speed Record cassettes!


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Gear does not give edge . Motor (driver) does.



But how much will they cost, and available in all ranges? When I learned about 12sp coming out, I decided to stock up on Chorus 11 cassettes in my preferred range (12-29) and Record 11 chains. Every time I saw a good price or got a promotional voucher, etc. Over the course of over a year, now up to 5 cassettes and 10 chains :lol: following the 2-1 rule. I'm not moving from 11 speed in a long time... even if I ever switched from Campy group to Shimano/SRAM, I'd still use Campy cogs and chains. Other than closer ratios, this is one of the other benefits of 2x11...
hehe I am doing the same.
Last edited by cveks on Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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cveks
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by cveks

fogman wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:09 am
I was reading that Chorus 12 has 3 cassette options. 11-29, 11-32, and 11-34. The 11-29 and 11-32 are compatible with Record and Super Record 12 but the 11-34 is not. Does the Chorus 12 rear derailleur have a longer cage than the R/SR 12 derailleurs?


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34/34 is greating climbing weapon for high cadence climbers like me.

That is great move by Campagnolo to add that into range.

Probably Chorus will have longer cage. It must.

I still did not see Chorus 12sp online with price ? Anyone else?

Attermann
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by Attermann

Bike-components.de has it


joeyb1000
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by joeyb1000

Yes, Chorus is definately available in the US. I already have Chorus cassettes. My understanding is that they came from Campy's midwest distribution center and that everything was available.


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cveks
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by cveks


It looks like that Chorus 12 speed is cheapest 12 groupset for now.

It has everything as top end groupsets , just little more weight around 200 grams.

How much does it weight total?

I also like that you can use 32/34 cassete with group straight.

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