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Re: Campagnolo 12-Speed

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:30 am
by mag
It works, but can be a little noisier.
SRM still sells the 11s design cranksets only (I saw some photos of pro bikes with the 12s designs, but they don't seem to be available to end users),
P2M sells both and the 12s ones are supposed to be identical to the 11s with just updated graphics.

P2M ones are supposedly approved by Campagnolo (at least I was told so by the P2M staff last year). In that case I expect the SRM to have about the same status.

Re: Campagnolo 12-Speed

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:58 pm
by ParisCarbon
What mag said... I had alot of contact with both P2Max and SRM when things were sliding to 12.. SRM told me that had no intentions on changing anything with the current design.. in the few conversations I had with them, they weren't even aware there was a relabeled generic crankarm! SRM is also not stocking the 12s rings from my understanding, so you are kinda on your own to get them... nothing has changed with the arms at all.. its all in the graphic.. P2Max also did not change any design at all with the unit itself, but stock the rings and new labeled arms...

I went with Exakt pedals so I can keep the Super Record crank.. now all I need is that pesky internal DTI so I can build my bikes... hoping its soon, September is cross season already...

Re: Campagnolo 12-Speed

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:58 pm
by Weenie

Re: Campagnolo 12-Speed

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:28 pm
by Guevarca
I was looking for a Power2Max this week but as I ride 170mm, my only option was the newer, more expensive NgEco with 12spd graphic as they no longer have either Type S or NgEco in 170 with the previous graphics.

Re: Campagnolo 12-Speed

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:34 pm
by ParisCarbon
Guevarca wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:28 pm
I was looking for a Power2Max this week but as I ride 170mm, my only option was the newer, more expensive NgEco with 12spd graphic as they no longer have either Type S or NgEco in 170 with the previous graphics.
Yes... P2Max mentioned to me in an email that although its the same arms, the new labeled version was going to be more expensive...

Re: Campagnolo 12-Speed

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:48 pm
by benzebub
are the bearings the same on the 12 speed and 11 speed P2Max versions?

Re: Campagnolo 12-Speed

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:30 pm
by mag
I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be, the BB cups are the same...

By the way, P2M have recently lowered the price of their 12s NGeco model by 100 EUR (it was 1490 before, 1390 now) so it's a little better now. And as I'm not in a hurry I'm just waiting for any summer sale they tend to run from time to time. That may bring the price down even more.

Re: Campagnolo 12-Speed

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:07 pm
by ParisCarbon
benzebub wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:48 pm
are the bearings the same on the 12 speed and 11 speed P2Max versions?
AFAIK they are all CULT bearings... there is not a specific 12 or 11 spd powermeter, they did not redesign anything, the 12s rings work, things are just a little noisier as I understand it.

Re: Campagnolo 12-Speed

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:51 pm
by neeb
Someone needs to set up a customisation service for campagnolo cranks to change the labels.. Are they decals applied underneath a coat of laquer?

Lots of potential as the fundamental design of the crank arms themselves hasn’t changed in years. I have EPS Record 11sp with the P2M NG and it bugs me a little that the “11 speed” logo has the SR white-on-red icon instead of the Record red-on-white one I have on everything else.. :)

Re: Campagnolo 12-Speed

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:53 am
by Seedster
I picked up Record 12 speed chainrings from Bike24 a few weeks ago. Per discussions with SRM, they will mount fine to my existing four arm powermeter.

I went this route because I was concerned about the noise from using non-campy parts on their new 12 speed drivetrains. Will report on the install once the SR EPS 12s I have on order with internal DTI is delivered. My shop assures me I will have one of the first, but the release seems to be taking forever.

Re: Campagnolo 12-Speed

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:09 am
by ParisCarbon
Seedster wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:53 am
I picked up Record 12 speed chainrings from Bike24 a few weeks ago. Per discussions with SRM, they will mount fine to my existing four arm powermeter.

I went this route because I was concerned about the noise from using non-campy parts on their new 12 speed drivetrains. Will report on the install once the SR EPS 12s I have on order with internal DTI is delivered. My shop assures me I will have one of the first, but the release seems to be taking forever.
Ive got mine on order from Italy, DB and rim versions.. was told its the internal wiring now and July... glorycycles has July 17 as the date listed which would make sense...

Re: Campagnolo 12-Speed

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:17 am
by carhillclimb
I have a Record EPS v3 11 speed set. Are any of the electrical or electronic components usable with EPS v4 12 speed? Shifters, battery, rear derailleur, front derailleur? Will the same cable pull tool work? I was directed to this thread but I did not see the answer in any post after March 14 which is the date of all the EPS 12 speed release blurbs.

I know that Athena EPS shifters are just switches, and I have actually modified a pair to operate di2 Shimano.

Re: Campagnolo 12-Speed

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:45 am
by ultimobici
Short answer is no, none of it is compatible.


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Re: Campagnolo 12-Speed

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:39 pm
by neeb
ultimobici wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:45 am
Short answer is no, none of it is compatible.
The wastefulness of capitalism.. :D

The 12sp EPS bits seem to be based on exactly the same design template as the 11sp ones. Campagnolo must have really gone out of their way to make them non-compatible. Why on earth should an 11sp EPS ergo not be able to operate a 12sp control unit and a 12sp mech, unless by design? It's just two switches and some wires.

I also wonder whether it would be / would have been theoretically possible to make an 11sp EPS mech and shifters work with a 12sp cassette and chain, with an appropriate firmware download and/or a new control unit.

Re: Campagnolo 12-Speed

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:54 pm
by corky
neeb wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:39 pm
ultimobici wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:45 am
Short answer is no, none of it is compatible.
The wastefulness of capitalism.. :D

The 12sp EPS bits seem to be based on exactly the same design template as the 11sp ones. Campagnolo must have really gone out of their way to make them non-compatible. Why on earth should an 11sp EPS ergo not be able to operate a 12sp control unit and a 12sp mech, unless by design? It's just two switches and some wires.

I also wonder whether it would be / would have been theoretically possible to make an 11sp EPS mech and shifters work with a 12sp cassette and chain, with an appropriate firmware download and/or a new control unit.
To gouge the unfortunate consumer.....

I think it’s very unfortunate, as I would buy individual components immediately, rather than waiting until I can afford a whole group set. .....actually illl look to buy older stuff and not bother trying to get the newer, I’m sick of Campagnolo deliberately making stuff incompatible....in what way is the Campag brake pad mounting system better than a Shimano?it isn’t it’s just different for no reason, and that’s just one example.

It’s always the loyal customer that gets ripped off.

Re: Campagnolo 12-Speed

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:54 pm
by Weenie

Re: Campagnolo 12-Speed

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:24 pm
by joeyb1000
Yes, the correct short answer is NO.

But:
For the shifters, it is likely just the plugs (someone here made an adapter to run Athena levers on a Record EPS group). For fun I plan on testing a 12s chain on 11s EPS to see it I can use 11 of the 12 gears. But, like evryone else, I'll probably change almost everything over.