Campagnolo 12-Speed

[HenryH]

The thing is most riders, if not all, on Campagnolo cranks do not know if the setup is 99% "right" or 47% right. Just because you wouldn't be able to tell that you might be riding with a crank with for example far too high preload costing you watts.

Yes you can. You only need to spin the cranks without chain in place, you'll see straight away whether it spins freely or is excessively stiff.

Also the seals when new at least are notoriously draggy. I've messed around with shims and additional wave washers, you can feel when there is excessive preload...... yes I realise this is not very scientific or even engineerific. Not enough preload only shows up with bearing run off which you only would notice with the anodization wear on the cups. Hambini has some good points but he didn't really do himself any favours with this example.

In my sample of running 7 chain sets over about 9 years I've never had any real problems with UT. I can see that Hambini sees issues from an engineering theoretical POV but in the real world it works and even their hollow cranks stay in one piece.

For me that is the key point. Hambini rarely comments on the "real life" effects of things - his comments, in my opinion, are mainly from a engineering (one might use the word theoretical) point of view. Take it for what it is I guess.

[AJS914]

Hambini was also missing the drive side circlip.

Did you mean the 2-point pin that people usually describe as "safety clip"? I was wondering if that would affect FD shifting, as it was shown near the end of the video that the chainset has loads of lateral play. Propably the original Campy cups would have a more stable chainline?

I hadn't thought about front shifting but I imagine it could be affect. The circlip or safety clip holds the crankset in place and prevents it from moving side to side.

Now that I think about it, it seems like Hambini should have made his BB wider. It shouldn't move side to side like that. I'd bet the manufacturing variance between ultra torque cranks is extremely small and that the total width is pretty standard. The wave washer makes up varrying bottom bracket widths. Hambini should have his width spot on.

[corky]

Hambini was also missing the drive side circlip.

Did you mean the 2-point pin that people usually describe as "safety clip"? I was wondering if that would affect FD shifting, as it was shown near the end of the video that the chainset has loads of lateral play. Propably the original Campy cups would have a more stable chainline?

I hadn't thought about front shifting but I imagine it could be affect. The circlip or safety clip holds the crankset in place and prevents it from moving side to side.

Now that I think about it, it seems like Hambini should have made his BB wider. It shouldn't move side to side like that. I'd bet the manufacturing variance between ultra torque cranks is extremely small and that the total width is pretty standard. The wave washer makes up varrying bottom bracket widths. Hambini should have his width spot on.

The circlip or safety clip doesn't hold the crankset in place. It just provides a hard stop.meaning it stops the crankset from moving further outboard. It can still move inboard depending on the gap and the strength of the wave washer.if the gap on the non drive side is within spec this is not a(real world) problem.

[Butcher]

My clips seems to lock in that side bearing. If the bearing can't move in [BB cup] or out [clip] that seems to be a good way of keeping it in place. The wave washer probably keeps the other bearing in check, but since the bearing is pressed on the inner race, the only load it would give is the outer race.

If there is movement, I suspect the clip may not be fully seated. Of course, you holes, bearing cup, or clip may have slightly different clearances which would allow some movement.

[Miller]

The thing is most riders, if not all, on Campagnolo cranks do not know if the setup is 99% "right" or 47% right. Just because you wouldn't be able to tell that you might be riding with a crank with for example far too high preload costing you watts.

Yes you can. You only need to spin the cranks without chain in place, you'll see straight away whether it spins freely or is excessively stiff.

You still wouldn't know if you are at 97% or 83%. And if it is too tight I don't know how you would fix it?

Oh come on. If the chainset bearings were running at 83% efficiency they'd be absorbing like 50W at 300W effort, they'd feel incredibly stiff, they'd be getting hot! Even a 3% loss in the chainset bearing would make them feel like sh!t.

[Miller]

I think Campagnolo's intention with the safety clip on the right hand side was to prevent the driveside falling off if the UT bolt came completely loose. Which has not happened with mine, ever.

[HenryH]

The thing is most riders, if not all, on Campagnolo cranks do not know if the setup is 99% "right" or 47% right. Just because you wouldn't be able to tell that you might be riding with a crank with for example far too high preload costing you watts.

Yes you can. You only need to spin the cranks without chain in place, you'll see straight away whether it spins freely or is excessively stiff.

You still wouldn't know if you are at 97% or 83%. And if it is too tight I don't know how you would fix it?

Oh come on. If the chainset bearings were running at 83% efficiency they'd be absorbing like 50W at 300W effort, they'd feel incredibly stiff, they'd be getting hot! Even a 3% loss in the chainset bearing would make them feel like sh!t.

Not what I meant. But OK then. You wouldn´t know 97% from 94%. Point still stands.

[synchronicity]

The Hambini BB.


No filleting on any of the sharp edges.
Any decent design engineer knows about stress concentrations at sharp corners.

[Dov]

Hambini is a bit of an enigma. Cycling doesn't really doesn't need [or want him] but he does seem to fill a void.

A wholesale return to threaded BB's and a few less 'standards' would certianly be a better outcome for consumers.

[HenryH]

I don't care either way. I got one road bike with threaded and one with "press fit", but moving back to threaded just because manufacturers can't be bothered with making frames that are good enough seems a bit silly to me. Or at least us "customers" seeing that as a good thing. I guess a bit off topic in any case.

As for Hambini. Why not write a comment to him on Odysee? If it is well thought out I think he would probably welcome the discussion. Imagine that - the cycling industry actually talking about each others designs and trying to improve on them? I would love to live in that world instead of the "#%#""#&" we are now usually presented by most OEMs (which is not limited to the cycling industry of course).

[DaveS]

The Hambini bottom bracket.

No filleting on any of the sharp edges.
Any decent design engineer knows about stress concentrations at sharp corners.

The posted picture doesn't mean a thing. There are no dimensions or tolerances. Most lathe tools have a radius at the cutting tip, although it may be quite small. The bearings don't have sharp corners either.

Regarding the clip, it's not a safety item. It limits the crank side play to a very small amount. The wave washer maintains a force that pulls the right side bearing toward the left and also loads the left side bearing. The frame width would have to be far off to cause a problem.

[Butcher]

See! The pros are not happy with the 12 speed cassettes too.
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/caleb- ... heres-why/

[HenryH]

The pro

[AJS914]

The 27 cog is what he misses??? Because he really wants 39x27? As a sprinter, how often is he in the 39x27? I wonder what he rides in the mountains.

Campagnolo 11 speed for the win today!

[Hexsense]

so
11sp 11-27 has ......15-17-19-21-23-25-27
12sp 11-29 has.15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29
hmm, really? Smaller jump near the end is more important than 16t?

A lot of riders on Shimano cassette use 11-30 which is 21-24-27-30, it has bigger jumps than any of those two.