Campagnolo 12-Speed

[Nefarious86]

I just sit back and laugh.

Lol, of course - nothing says 'I don't care' like having a whinge out of the blue about something that came and went monts ago.

Having a long memory doesn't mean I have a 'I dont care' attitude it was more highlighting your long running behavioral patterns sweetie

Truth be told I do care because you drag threads down every time you get involved.

[wingguy]

Having a long memory doesn't mean I have a 'I dont care' attitude it was more highlighting your long running behavioral patterns sweetie

Do you seriously not know what the word 'pattern' means? Fundamentally it refers to things that happen more than once - like it's a pattern that you hold a grudge.

Truth be told I do care because you drag threads down every time you get involved.

How do you think you're helping with that right now? Because I'm not sure it's been elevated again by bringing your personal issues into play.

[Kjetil]

Please. Stop. It. Right. Now.

I like the new rd aesthetics. Makes me think of Gran Sport. Also R with it’s metal outer cage looks better than SR.

[LionelB]

I've seen it in the flesh and it actually looks very good. I tried it as well and the shitfing is crisper than 11s, very much 10s like which I like too. The FD shifting is also improved (on something that was already working well).

[avispa]

I totally agree. It’s ugly as hell. Shocked Campy blew it. The whole 12 speed thing is stupid IMO. They should have released as sweet new pedal.

Or a power meter... I have a feeling this 12 speed thing (electronic at least) is gonna blow in the face for campy as far as sales go... unless it’s fully compatible with 11 in some ways...

[ParisCarbon]

Essentially with the PM , my understanding from P2Max is its with Campy for testing... they had mentioned it all depends if they want to use the "old" crank design, or a new one. SRM has already stated to me that they have no intentions on redesigning the Campagnolo model.. Someone else mentioned on here many pages ago that stages would be developing a PM based on the new crank.. P2Max will redesign if Campy changes the arms (Campy supplies the exact same arms to P2Max and SRM)... Id think there would be 12 speed PM solution soon, I havent seen any clear pics of a PM on any of the 12 spd EPS guinea pig bikes... they all seem to be using the new crank...

[avispa]

Essentially with the PM , my understanding from P2Max is its with Campy for testing... they had mentioned it all depends if they want to use the "old" crank design, or a new one. SRM has already stated to me that they have no intentions on redesigning the Campagnolo model.. Someone else mentioned on here many pages ago that stages would be developing a PM based on the new crank.. P2Max will redesign if Campy changes the arms (Campy supplies the exact same arms to P2Max and SRM)... Id think there would be 12 speed PM solution soon, I havent seen any clear pics of a PM on any of the 12 spd EPS guinea pig bikes... they all seem to be using the new crank...

I am aware of what you've pointed out... Actually the arms sent to P2M and SRM are both the same. As a matter of fact, the P2M and SRM PMs are almost indentical in the spider design as well. I'd think that if the 12sp chainrings are the deal killer in all these issues, just having the same arms with a new pretty decal, won't cut it. One mistake, I think, Campy made when they created 11 speed, is that they emblazoned "11 SPEED" on most of their components, rather than just "Super Record" or "Recond" as they now have. It would be a pitty if SRM/P2M come up with a new "12 Speed" spider, that could use the old arms. I'd rather send in my old arms and have them install the new spider, rather than spending more money just to have an upadted decal!!!

I think P2M and SRM should see if there is a modification needed to the spider to make it work with a 12sp drive train. By the way, these cranksets used by P2M and SRM are not really "Super Record" or "Record". They are hybrid cranksets made in collaboration with Campy. The arms, as you said, are supplied by Campy, but they have CULT bearings AND a steel spindle, similar to a Record crankset. But the bearings are what a Super Record crankset has. Therefore, I'd see another hybrid crankset made by these companies.

P2M seems to be more involved in this, because of the Movistar sponsorship. But I'd be hard pressed to believe they would go through all the trouble to make a Super Record 12sp specific spider, to be compatible with these SR 12 "reinforced chainrings": https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Compon ... et_12speed
However, the Record 12sp crankset seems to offer pretty much the same "advantages" of the SR, but the chainrings would be much easy to install on a spider designed as the ones seen on the current SRM and P2M: https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Compon ... et_12speed

I personally wouldn't waste my time with Stages or other power meters any time soon...

[graeme_f_k]

@graeme_f_k Do You know what exactly is that blue compound that Campagnolo use on their derailleur adjustment & limit screws for their protection form corrosion and to prevent their undesired loosening? Could it be Loctite 242? It might be too strong though.

We've been recommended to use (and have always used), 248.

[liam7020]

@graeme_f_k any details on back compatibility of the pending 12 EPS? More specifically, will the new EPS be compatible with the existing V3 battery? Ta

[Miller]

More specifically, will the new EPS be compatible with the existing V3 battery? Ta

Hasn't that already been answered in the negative? Campag puts significant electronics in with the battery so I would assume there will be a new 12sp battery.

[ParisCarbon]

Essentially with the PM , my understanding from P2Max is its with Campy for testing... they had mentioned it all depends if they want to use the "old" crank design, or a new one. SRM has already stated to me that they have no intentions on redesigning the Campagnolo model.. Someone else mentioned on here many pages ago that stages would be developing a PM based on the new crank.. P2Max will redesign if Campy changes the arms (Campy supplies the exact same arms to P2Max and SRM)... Id think there would be 12 speed PM solution soon, I havent seen any clear pics of a PM on any of the 12 spd EPS guinea pig bikes... they all seem to be using the new crank...

I am aware of what you've pointed out... Actually the arms sent to P2M and SRM are both the same. As a matter of fact, the P2M and SRM PMs are almost indentical in the spider design as well. I'd think that if the 12sp chainrings are the deal killer in all these issues, just having the same arms with a new pretty decal, won't cut it. One mistake, I think, Campy made when they created 11 speed, is that they emblazoned "11 SPEED" on most of their components, rather than just "Super Record" or "Recond" as they now have. It would be a pitty if SRM/P2M come up with a new "12 Speed" spider, that could use the old arms. I'd rather send in my old arms and have them install the new spider, rather than spending more money just to have an upadted decal!!!

I think P2M and SRM should see if there is a modification needed to the spider to make it work with a 12sp drive train. By the way, these cranksets used by P2M and SRM are not really "Super Record" or "Record". They are hybrid cranksets made in collaboration with Campy. The arms, as you said, are supplied by Campy, but they have CULT bearings AND a steel spindle, similar to a Record crankset. But the bearings are what a Super Record crankset has. Therefore, I'd see another hybrid crankset made by these companies.

P2M seems to be more involved in this, because of the Movistar sponsorship. But I'd be hard pressed to believe they would go through all the trouble to make a Super Record 12sp specific spider, to be compatible with these SR 12 "reinforced chainrings": https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Compon ... et_12speed
However, the Record 12sp crankset seems to offer pretty much the same "advantages" of the SR, but the chainrings would be much easy to install on a spider designed as the ones seen on the current SRM and P2M: https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Compon ... et_12speed

I personally wouldn't waste my time with Stages or other power meters any time soon...

Hi,
Yes was aware of all that stuff as well.. in an email I found P2Max kind of hinted that Campy wished they had been more on top of this PM stuff and 12 speed a while ago.. Now its catch up time.. Probably realistically won't see anything "full blown" until Tour down Under now. Im in the process of swapping my Sagan 2016 Tarmac to SR EPS and going with P2Max... $3100US for the rechargeable SRM or $1700US for the P2Max for the same accuracy... I like my SRM stuff, but that $1400 is almost my EPS V3 kit!

[ParisCarbon]

Just noted this from the P2Max site:

THE NG CAMPAGNOLO POWER METER IS COMPATIBLE WITH THE NEW CAMPAGNOLO RECORD AND SUPER RECORD 12X2 SPEED GROUPSETS.

This has recently changed... it used to say it wasn't..

[mag]

Yes that's strange, not more than a few days ago there was still that claim of incompatibility with 12s.

Might be interesting to get some more detailed info - either from P2M or even from Campy.
Have they done any minor tweaks (not worth mentioning from their point of view) to their currently sold PMs or none at all?

[c60rider]

This has changed in the past couple of days as I only looked on Thursday and there was no 12 speed option. So does this mean they're just saying that 11 speed rings will work with the 12 speed chain, which is likely. It says nothing about being optimised for 11 or 12. Either way if I'm buying 12 speed at the cost it is I don't want 11 speed on my cranks!

[liam7020]

More specifically, will the new EPS be compatible with the existing V3 battery? Ta

Hasn't that already been answered in the negative? Campag puts significant electronics in with the battery so I would assume there will be a new 12sp battery.

Not answered by an official Campag source. Never assume.