Campagnolo 12-Speed

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mr_tim
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by mr_tim

V3Rs wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 1:19 pm
I believe there is some sort of accepted rule of thumb that said for every few (I am not sure how many) chain renewals, the chainring/cassette should be changed out. Perhaps someone will chime in here with the recommendation.
On 36/52 chain ring & usually 12-27 cassette I get 35k kms from chain rings before excessive chain drops. That's with disc frame H11 group set. Started showing wear with holding chain in gear 52/25 say at 30k usage.

There is more tolerance on non disc with mileage being more like 45k kms before problems & obvious wear on the ring.

I tend to change chains at 3k kms and the cassette usually will need swapping out at about 15k.. albeit I tend to replace cassettes sooner. I'd rather get a few too many chains than chainrings ... they're just easier to get hold of.

I'm riding in fairly rolling terrain. Kind of stuff that extremely rarely needs any gear lighter than 36/25 ..

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AM7Jeremy
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:19 pm

by AM7Jeremy

Time to start stocking up on a Chorus 12 groupset then...

robertbb
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by robertbb

gorkypl wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:42 pm
raggedtrousers wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:26 pm
I have a sneaky feeling that Chorus 12 is going to be a bit of a classic, and a rare example of a groupset becoming in greater demand as it ages.
Agreed. It is really an awesome group - I have bikes with Ekar and Record 12, but when found a great deal for 2nd hand barely used 12s Chorus I bought it without hesitation. Great looks, and the same quality as R and SR in a more affordable package.
I think the Chorus 11-speed 2015+ gruppo's are more of a classic. You had shifters and rear derailleur that were carbon just like R/SR, and a front derailleur that didn't use a carbon cage prone to breaking. The Chorus cranks were also essentially identical to R/SR. You also had cassettes that start with 12...

Chorus 12 is significantly cheaper quality - more like Potenza but with Ultra Shift. The rear derailleurs in 12 speed are hideous and bulky and IMO not a patch on the beautiful curves of the 11sp RD's.

No offense to anyone who may love their Chorus 12, while no doubt a great groupset, I can't see it being a classic at all.

eKar will be, however. Well it should be, dunno if it will.

velov
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by velov

Have to agree, just can't see any groupset beating the 2015+ Campagnolo range. Chorus especially was a standout.

gorkypl
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by gorkypl

micky wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:06 am
gorkypl wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:06 pm
There will be a new group this year. It won't be neither affordable nor mechanical so you can safely grab 12s Chorus right now.
Ekar EPS?
Nope

Fuji Cross 1.5 - Shimano 105 5800 | Cinelli Superstar Disc - Record 12s | Custom steel Karamba - Ekar 13s

gorkypl
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by gorkypl

robertbb wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:08 am
I think the Chorus 11-speed 2015+ gruppo's are more of a classic. You had shifters and rear derailleur that were carbon just like R/SR, and a front derailleur that didn't use a carbon cage prone to breaking. The Chorus cranks were also essentially identical to R/SR. You also had cassettes that start with 12...

Chorus 12 is significantly cheaper quality - more like Potenza but with Ultra Shift. The rear derailleurs in 12 speed are hideous and bulky and IMO not a patch on the beautiful curves of the 11sp RD's.
Keep in mind that 12s Chorus was priced lower than Chorus 11s, so it was a planned move. It made sense, as having 3 top tier groups with carbon everything was overkill.

So think of Record 12 more as a merge of Ch11 and R11, and Chorus 12 as a Potenza 11 equivalent.

Agreed that Ekar has a potential to become a classic.

Fuji Cross 1.5 - Shimano 105 5800 | Cinelli Superstar Disc - Record 12s | Custom steel Karamba - Ekar 13s

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neeb
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by neeb

gorkypl wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:16 pm
So think of Record 12 more as a merge of Ch11 and R11, and Chorus 12 as a Potenza 11 equivalent.
Yup, that makes sense. Except for the consumer, Ch11 and R11 were arguably more attractive options - on the one hand, top-end quality / fairly low weight at the lowest price (Ch11), and at the other, absolute best quality without the added cost of the SR label.

bikeboy1tr
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by bikeboy1tr

When my Record 12 groupset arrived and I unpacked it thinking, wow this looks kind of cheap because of the UD carbon they use compared to the weave carbon they used on the 11. At first I thought maybe the SR would have the weave appearance but then when I ordered a SR RD and that confirmed the UD carbon appearance. When comparing the 12 to my wifes SR 11 I prefer the classic look of the weave on her SR 11.
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rollinslow
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by rollinslow

gorkypl wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:10 pm
micky wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:06 am
gorkypl wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:06 pm
There will be a new group this year. It won't be neither affordable nor mechanical so you can safely grab 12s Chorus right now.
Ekar EPS?
Nope
I don't have any inside info but it just seems logical for Ekar electronic. Ekar is a hit and money maker for campy, gravel is the hottest cycling market, so why throw that opportunity away? Seems too logical for them to make the mistake of surrendering gravel after a big win on Ekar.
Moots Vamoots RSL (2019)-Super Record 12
Cervelo S1 (2010)-Super Record 12
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usr
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by usr

gorkypl wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:16 pm
So think of Record 12 more as a merge of Ch11 and R11, and Chorus 12 as a Potenza 11 equivalent.
Desperately trying to fix what they broke by forcing Powershift on Athena in 2011. Might have cannibalized Chorus a tiny bit but the next decade would have seen a lot more customers refusing to buy anything that can't do multi in both directions (now that's moot because of motor shifting)

usr
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by usr

bikeboy1tr wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:50 pm
When my Record 12 groupset arrived and I unpacked it thinking, wow this looks kind of cheap because of the UD carbon they use compared to the weave carbon they used on the 11. At first I thought maybe the SR would have the weave appearance but then when I ordered a SR RD and that confirmed the UD carbon appearance. When comparing the 12 to my wifes SR 11 I prefer the classic look of the weave on her SR 11.
To my eyes, unless you are building a neo-classic from the ksyrium age, woven carbon surfaces look terribly outdated. Thanks for giving me an opportunity to feel not-old ;)

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neeb
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by neeb

usr wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:00 pm
bikeboy1tr wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:50 pm
When my Record 12 groupset arrived and I unpacked it thinking, wow this looks kind of cheap because of the UD carbon they use compared to the weave carbon they used on the 11. At first I thought maybe the SR would have the weave appearance but then when I ordered a SR RD and that confirmed the UD carbon appearance. When comparing the 12 to my wifes SR 11 I prefer the classic look of the weave on her SR 11.
To my eyes, unless you are building a neo-classic from the ksyrium age, woven carbon surfaces look terribly outdated. Thanks for giving me an opportunity to feel not-old ;)
It's chicken & egg, isn't it? Carbon weave might look outdated to some, but that's only because it stopped being used in new products. And the reason for that was probably because it was more expensive to manufacture. But by any objective criteria, it just looks classier and better finished (at least in the subtle way it was done on Campagnolo rear mechs and ergo levers, maybe less so in the case of massive 12k weave wheels and frames..).

robertbb
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by robertbb

Agree neeb! The way 3k is implemented on 11sp Campy I think looks understated and classy. It also ads to the uniqueness of that range - now all groupsets look kinda bland with their matte monotone finishes.

@usr - why else would one use 11sp Campy if not for a neo-classic? ;-)

velov
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by velov

usr wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:00 pm
To my eyes, unless you are building a neo-classic from the ksyrium age, woven carbon surfaces look terribly outdated. Thanks for giving me an opportunity to feel not-old ;)
Nothing about age, I'm in my early twenties...you just haven't seen a truly well made modern frame from Time, in a sea of cheaply manufactured UD carbon frames a weave looks stunning.

Lina
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by Lina

velov wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:06 am
usr wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:00 pm
To my eyes, unless you are building a neo-classic from the ksyrium age, woven carbon surfaces look terribly outdated. Thanks for giving me an opportunity to feel not-old ;)
Nothing about age, I'm in my early twenties...you just haven't seen a truly well made modern frame from Time, in a sea of cheaply manufactured UD carbon frames a weave looks stunning.
Just because Time frames are well made doesn't make weave surfaces any less tacky and outdated.

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