Campagnolo 12-Speed

[TK421]

Congratulations on the good deals guys.

Anyone able to comment from first hand experience on the performance of the 12sp groupset? How is it compared to the 11sp, impressions etc.

[markyboy]

Congratulations on the good deals guys.

Anyone able to comment from first hand experience on the performance of the 12sp groupset? How is it compared to the 11sp, impressions etc.

Yes i rode my master with 12 speed the weekend and its flawless,to me its quicker and smoother.Also i feel the levers and hoods have a better feel to them they seem to fit my hands better.
I am now waiting for eps to go on my other bike,or i might go mechanical again.
I also got the merlin bargain.

[dgasmd]

The closer it gets to “EPS V4 release into the wild”, the more convinced I am it will simply be Record/SR, wired, same internal, but now for 12 sp only!! I’m about to pull the trigger on a 11 sp mechanical Sr for my other bike and sit tight on 11sp for the next 10 years in all bikes!

[liam7020]

The closer it gets to “EPS V4 release into the wild”, the more convinced I am it will simply be Record/SR, wired, same internal, but now for 12 sp only!! I’m about to pull the trigger on a 11 sp mechanical Sr for my other bike and sit tight on 11sp for the next 10 years in all bikes!

Think you're right about the V4 and sticking with 11sp mechanical sounds like a top plan!

[Noctiluxx]

I've noticed there are no Super Record direct mount brake calipers. Am I wrong?

[mag]

There are "Campagnolo" labeled ones which are offered for voth R and SR groupsets: https://www.campagnolo.com/WW/en/Compon ... ount_brake
(and they're marked as "Record" in some materials)

[wilwil]

There are "Campagnolo" labeled ones which are offered for voth R and SR groupsets: https://www.campagnolo.com/WW/en/Compon ... ount_brake
(and they're marked as "Record" in some materials)

And theres no technical manual available for them. What is the tiny grub screw for on one side? Does anybody know?

[wilwil]

The technical document for the SR shifters says that on no account should internally routed gear cables touch each other. Does this rule out crossing in the downtube which according to some is the best way to route the gear cables to reduce drag and also prevent cable rub on the head tube?

[mag]

And theres no technical manual available for them. What is the tiny grub screw for on one side? Does anybody know?

Yes there's only that user manual: https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... _03_18.pdf
Which screw do you mean? Can you find a photo where it's visible? I may be able to check it later when at home, but not right now.

The technical document for the SR shifters says that on no account should internally routed gear cables touch each other. Does this rule out crossing in the downtube which according to some is the best way to route the gear cables to reduce drag and also prevent cable rub on the head tube?

I know it's stated there but I've got them crossed in the downtube and so far so good. Not even a slightest sign of any issue.

[cveks]

is anyone riding 12 speed groupset already?

Share your thoughts...

[wilwil]

And theres no technical manual available for them. What is the tiny grub screw for on one side? Does anybody know?

Yes there's only that user manual: https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... _03_18.pdf
Which screw do you mean? Can you find a photo where it's visible? I may be able to check it later when at home, but not right now.

The technical document for the SR shifters says that on no account should internally routed gear cables touch each other. Does this rule out crossing in the downtube which according to some is the best way to route the gear cables to reduce drag and also prevent cable rub on the head tube?

I know it's stated there but I've got them crossed in the downtube and so far so good. Not even a slightest sign of any issue.

I have the 11 speed SR crossed. However it doesnt look as nice as not crossed on a C64 as in this picture taken on the Colnago stand at the Rouleur Exhibition. You can also see the little grub screw on the front brake caliper in this picture.

[Mockenrue]

Those grub screws are for 'centring' the brake by adjusting the distance from the pads to the rim (there's one on each side.)

These are phenomenal brakes. I have them on my V2-R and Concept.

[mag]

I don't think he means those 2 as it's quite obvious what they're for.

@cveks Quite a few people here already have it, well performing groupsets. The only little thing I don't like about them much is the addition of more FD trim positions (micro adjustments). It has now 5 positions (3 on the small chainring, 2 on the large one) while the previous generation had 4 (still 3 on the small, but just 1 on the large). It's a nuisance a little. But with longer chainstays and careful setup you can nearly elliminate the need to use 2 of those most extreme positions so it isn't a disaster. And I suppose that with the coming 12s EPS groupset you won't have to deal with this at all.

@wilwil I've got it actually crossed on the C64 frame and prefer it to the non-crossed configuration where the cable housings may rub here and there. It's up to you to decide what do you prefer. What's important is that crossed configs still perform perfectly so no worries here.

[Calnago]

@Noctilux: True, for the Direct Mount versions there is just the one version that says "Campagnolo" on them. For the regular (standard center mount) version, there are both Record and Super Record versions and it says Record or Super Record on them.

And theres no technical manual available for them. What is the tiny grub screw for on one side? Does anybody know?

@wilwil: I'm presuming you're talking about the standard mount version and not the direct mount version, correct? If so, then that little grub screw on one side is for fine tuning the centering of the entire caliper if it's slightly off after you torque it down. Makes getting the distance between the pads and rim extremely easy and precise.
For the Direct Mount versions, there are two Phillips screws, one on each side and you use these for adjustment.
Furhermore, on the standard mount 11sp SR calipers, there is one more screw that will actually allow adjustment of the spring tension in the entire caliper, so extremely fine adjustments to all aspects of braking can be made.

Regarding crossing of cables internally. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I find the cable routing shown on that C64 above just ugly, and less fucntional than if the crossing internally method is used. I've already had to place clear frame protector stickers on a C64 that has the cable routed as shown above as the cables had already started eating the clear coat. And as I described in my C64 build thread, simply putting a rubber bumper on the cable housing doesn't prevent this at all. I just means that instead of the cable housing rubbing dirt against the frame, you now have the bumper rubbing dirt against the frame. Those bumpers really just protect the cable housing. If you want to protect the frame, you need some stick on clear pieces of protector tape of some sort where the housing contacts the frame.
As for functionality of crossing the cables internally, it depends on whether the cross, when tensioned, will pull down or up on the other cable or not. THAT, is what you want to avoid at all costs. If, as in the case of C64 for example, with internally crossed cables, they simply cross over each other at one point and do not affect the tension of the other cable in any way, so it is perfectly fine. Obviously you have to be careful that you don't get the cables actually twisted internally or things will never work properly. I'm trying to think of an actual frame where crossing of the cables internally would have that pulling effect on the other cable that I'm talking about, but none come to mind. Perhaps there are some, but I've not come across any. Basically, if you've got a straight shot from the cable housing entry point to the exit point, then you'll be good, even if they cross over each other.

[Calnago]

@cveks Quite a few people here already have it, well performing groupsets. The only little thing I don't like about them much is the addition of more FD trim positions (micro adjustments). It has now 5 positions (3 on the small chainring, 2 on the large one) while the previous generation had 4 (still 3 on the small, but just 1 on the large). It's a nuisance a little. But with longer chainstays and careful setup you can nearly elliminate the need to use 2 of those most extreme positions so it isn't a disaster. And I suppose that with the coming 12s EPS groupset you won't have to deal with this at all.

@mag: what you point out is something I've given a lot of thought to ever since the newer "HO" stuff came out, even before the 12sp came out. HO stands for "Hydraulic Optimized" or something like that, and in typical Italian fashion, is not really what they're trying to say at all. It has nothing to do with whether hydraulics are being used or not, just that that's how Campy's disc levers operate and they needed some marketing acronynm to go along with the new stuff. What it's really optimized for is the 135mm rear dropout spacing required by disc brakes. Ok, so they've bumped out the chainline by 1mm to accommodate that. And widened the spacing a smidge between the two front rings to help a bit when the chain is crossed small/small, particularly if the chainstays are on the shortish side. But here's where I think there's a disconnect. Now the chainline is optimized for 135mm rear dropout spacing, so where does that leave those of us who still are fine, and prefer, the 130mm dropout spacing. I'll tell you what I think... it leaves it "sub-optimized" for 130mm spacing. The current 11sp stuff is optimized for 130mm spacing, along with the ideal chainline of 43.5mm. There is no trim required when the chain is on the big ring... all cogs, whether crossed or not are perfectly accessible. They say it "works" with the 11sp stuff, but I feel it may be a little bit like what we all jump all over when someone says "it works", and then we retort with "yeah, but does it work perfectly". I'm thinking if the new front setup requires two positons to access all the cogs instead of one, then something may have been suboptimized a tiny bit over what it was before. Damn that disc brake 135mm spacing. Everything was working so perfectly at 130mm.

I've not written about this before because I dont' have a group of my own that I can test all the various combinations out, mixing and matching the new stuff up front with the old to see for myself which is optimal. And I can't very well do that with someone else's stuff. So I may end up investing in a group simply to do all this testing. Not sure yet, but let's just say I'm not as keen to jump all over the 12sp stuff at this point as maybe I was when it first showed up. I need to test everything out for myself first.

@mag: Sounds like you have a 12sp group of your own at this point?