Campagnolo 12-Speed

[robertbb]

At some point the marginal gains/losses are so marginal that we might as well be talking about brushing our eyebrows or trimming finger nails before race day.

OMG you are a GENIOUS. WHY didn't I think of this before.

If I get electronic I may even be able to remove a finger or two, or get wrist reduction surgery. My fair weather Saturday club run buddies won't even know what hit 'em. Muahhahaha.

[BigBoyND]

When you trim your finger nails, make sure to then file them at an angle to get a clean nail-finger transition. It's more aero that way.

[Cycomanic]

I think it was FrictionFacts. The difference between big-middle and big-big was about 0.8W, if I remember correctly.

Is there a lot of noise only in the last cog or second to last cog, too? Because 1x sits between where your two rings currently are. So the crosschaining angle is slightly reduced with 1x compared to big-big

According to the friction facts test a 1x setup was between 2.5 and 6W less efficient than the 1x drivetrain at 250W of power. Admittedly that was using a 48 at the front, so the issue with going to 1x seems to mainly be the need to reduce the size of the chain ring.

You were correct about the difference between bigbig and small middle that was about 0.8W. So maybe the solution for 1x is to stay with a 50 or 52 and go to 44ish at the back? I suspect that would need some significant rework of the dereilleur.

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

[BigBoyND]

I think it was FrictionFacts. The difference between big-middle and big-big was about 0.8W, if I remember correctly.

Is there a lot of noise only in the last cog or second to last cog, too? Because 1x sits between where your two rings currently are. So the crosschaining angle is slightly reduced with 1x compared to big-big

According to the friction facts test a 1x setup was between 2.5 and 6W less efficient than the 1x drivetrain at 250W of power. Admittedly that was using a 48 at the front, so the issue with going to 1x seems to mainly be the need to reduce the size of the chain ring.

You were correct about the difference between bigbig and small middle that was about 0.8W. So maybe the solution for 1x is to stay with a 50 or 52 and go to 44ish at the back? I suspect that would need some significant rework of the dereilleur.

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

If you did want a 44 in the back, probably just need a Wolftooth link if we're talking Campy SR or R. No problem with Ekar or SRAM/Shimano's CX/MTB derailleurs.

But... big-middle and small-middle were only 0.2W apart, and 39t was the faster (probably because 0.2W is within margin of error), so 48 front would be fine anyway. Pretty much every combination was within 1W until you start going to 13t and smaller in the back. And at that point we are talking about 0.5W increments.

Also, important to note, usually people cross big-big (0.8W loss vs perfect chainline), not small-small (3W loss vs perfect chainline)

So as long as you aren't cross chaining small-small while running a 8t cog in the back and a granny gear in the front, "splitting hairs" does not convey how meaningless these differences are.

Edit:
You said 6W, but I think you misread the chart. Each vertical line is 0.5W.
"Frictional losses at lower gearing are similar or slightly less on average compared to the 2x11.
Frictional losses at higher gearing are greater than the 2x11, by approximately 1.0 watts."

[JohnHP]

Anyone know if it's possible to get the maximum smoothness inner shift cable only? Thinking of changing my cable routing and I don't want to throw out the outers that are only 7 months old.

Yes

Great! I'll keep looking since I have only been able to find the full kits. Endeavor to persevere and all that...

[Guevarca]

Anyone know if it's possible to get the maximum smoothness inner shift cable only? Thinking of changing my cable routing and I don't want to throw out the outers that are only 7 months old.

Yes

Great! I'll keep looking since I have only been able to find the full kits. Endeavor to persevere and all that...

We can get them over here in the UK, albeit with the rear section of outer as well. Still expensive but less than a whole kit
https://www.condorcycles.com/collection ... -cable-kit

[joeyb1000]

Anyone know if it's possible to get the maximum smoothness inner shift cable only? Thinking of changing my cable routing and I don't want to throw out the outers that are only 7 months old.

Yes

Great! I'll keep looking since I have only been able to find the full kits. Endeavor to persevere and all that...

Where are you located?

[NickB]

There is very little demand for road cassettes starting at 12t.

12t minimum cassettes expired at the same time as 53t chainrings.

Now that mostly everyone rides 48t, 50t, or 52t chainrings a 11t sprocket is useful for descents.

For those who do choose 53t chainrings 11t is also a must, as they are the fastest and most powerful riders who would not be interested in riding a bike without an 11t.

Oh wait, maybe there's also another group who remain on 53t, but can't even get close to using the 11t. They really should change to 48t, or 50t and stop wishing for cassettes starting with 12t.

[NickB]

Made me chuckle, and so true. There is another reason for 52 or 53 though, asthetics on big frames. I've got a 63cm Koga here and it looks very silly with a 50. It's not my main bike (it's a bit big) but if it were 12 Speed Chorus with 39/53 and 11-34 would be my choice, although I would happily have 12 smallest cog if available. Miche may fill these gaps in time? My smaller (60cm) bikes are on 34/50 12-32 Campy (Centaur 11 cassettes) and athetics are fine. If I wern't 60, 100kg and in North Devon 52/36 12 to 28 would be nice althoug SRAM ratios for 11-28 are the nicest as they have 11-17 in single jumps, nice for 100kg peeps.

Sorry double post, removed 1st

[Sin2000]

Re 12 up cassettes. I am a high cadence (av. 100rpm), light-ish (66kg), relatively low power rider (200w FTP) - and so for flat-ish terrain I ride 50-34 and 12-25 (11 speed). This gives me an 18 tooth sprocket which I love because 50-17/18/19/21 are the gears I most often find myself in when working moderately hard on the flat, and the minimal cadence fluctuations are great.

I only find 50-12 to be insufficient 1 or 2 times a year- e.g. when a fast descent also has a tailwind. I can reach about 40mph before spinning out (I don't race).

For me therefore an 11 is unnecessary. I will admit that if I went down to a 48 tooth chainring then an 11 would be handy, but I'd much prefer an 18, and in an ideal world a 20 tooth sprocket too. My ideal 12 speed set-up would be 52-36 with 12-26 (12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-23-26).

Given that this ain't gonna happen, I'll settle for 50-34 and 12-29 (12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-26-29). Surely there would be enough sales to justify developing such a cassette? I know Recon produce one, but availablility is poor and quality is ... ??? not sure. I want a Campag 12-up 12 speed cassette.

3 different 12 up cassettes were available for 11-speed, and in the 10 speed era there were even two 13-up cassette options. I don't think I'm making an unreasonable request.

[Kjetil]

There is the 48/32 Chorus option to shorten your gears.

[synchronicity]

By the way, the 12 speed 12-27T miche cassette I hobbled together works.
It goes like this: 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 21, 23, 25, 27.

[AJS914]

Rather than start a new topic, I'll ask here.

Does Campagnolo still produce any 11 speed? I see some parts supply drying up. I assume they will make things like chains and cassettes for a while longer but what about derailleurs or shifters?

[Butcher]

By the way, the 12 speed 12-27T miche cassette I hobbled together works.
It goes like this: 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 21, 23, 25, 27.

Such a tease.

Is there a link to this butchery or is it a secret? Still waiting for my EPS12 [9 months now] and I did get the two Miche 12 stock cassettes. I would love to know what you did.

[usr]

Does Campagnolo still produce any 11 speed? I see some parts supply drying up. I assume they will make things like chains and cassettes for a while longer but what about derailleurs or shifters?

You mean other than Centaur? I doubt it. Wouldn't even be surprised if all the chains and cassettes available that are Chorus up were exclusively old stock.

Or maybe they do continue to get made (chains and cassettes), at least Chorus cassettes and Record chains still appear in the latest price list PDF. Derailleurs and shifters, not. Also on the price list: sprockets 9s and 10s on Veloce level (10s also derailleurs and shifters), chains 9s and 10s on Veloce and Record levels. That looks like a deliberate selection of stuff they'd reissue if stock runs out, not like random oversupply. A list of random oversupply would very likely include every variation of 10s and 11s 53T chainrings they ever made (just look at availability in stores).