Campagnolo 12-Speed

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
jih
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by jih

Calnago wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:24 am
Only if you ride all day on pretty flat ground, with no hills or descents, and don’t want to go too fast or too slow. In which case, sure... you may as well only have one ring. In fact, a single speed may be all you need. My dad got me one of those when I was 8.
Maybe it's a local language thing. Here 'spend all day doing x' doesn't literally mean 100% of the time. It's a colloqual way to say 'most of'. What I mean is, you're in the middle ring almost all of the time, and only shift the front for steep ups or downs. It's surprising how little the big and small rings get used. Especially since if you're on your bike with a triple you're probably not in a pack of racers. I only have one bike with a triple - a very non-sporty steel bike and 44x11-28 is surprisingly fine for most regular club riding with an average speed on rolling hills of maybe 28k/h.

No huge point here. Just think it's interesting how riding 3x has more in common with 1x than 2x does. In terms of on-the-road feel anyway.


bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

The thing about 1x12 is you don't have to use it but it can be an option. If I buy a Shimano XT groupset I can buy a 1x or 2x crankset. Some people use 2x as it suits them better others use 1x. so if 1x road chainsets were offered it does not mean doubles will not be. There is a place for both and Shimano has the R8000 clutched rear mech. Do you think that was introduced as a gimmick?

In 42x11 30 mph is comfortable 100 rpm with 28mm tyres. I am not sure I would want a 9T sprocket, wear rate, and drive train losses are high.

For road racing, the hills are not steep enough that I need to front shift. I the hill is steep enough that I need a inner ring then it wont help as i will be off the back anyway. As I don't need to front shift in the races I do, I have no need for the inner ring. Yet I have to buy double chainsets or cranks made for a double ring setup and put up with sub optimal chainline. `

On the commuter bike which is not a speed machine, a 42T ring still allows me to pedal at 30 mph comfortably but since I don't commute at those speeds that irrelevant. So the 42T/32t is low enough for all but the nastiest hills.

For the training bike (one of them) a 46T is perfect and 46T might even work well for racing.

On a side note, don't use rotor QX1 chainrings with Campagnolo rear mechs as the chain drops. The wide teeth are not wide enough. In fact, I would not use a QX1 ring again. It is being replaced by a Garbaruk.

Anyway it may next week so in theory the groupsets wil be with me soon.

octav
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by octav

Any news on the 12 speed gruppo? Is there anyone with the groupset ? I am just curious how it compares to the SR11 in the real life? I am tempted to get one, but just got 8 months ago the SR11 so for me it's not an option as it's too much money lost for the moment.

morrisond
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by morrisond

BTW - I just weighed my 11sp SR 11-29 Cassette - 208 grams vs 266 grams for 12sp. Plus 11sp Super Record Cranks are 30 ish ligther grams as well.

The price of progress.

morrisond
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by morrisond

One other 12sp Thought this morning.

If you ran an 12 sp 11-29 Cassette - Could you run 53/34 in the front? There should be enough chain wrap capacity - but is the FD Cage big enough to span the 19 tooth Difference?

You could a lot overall usabable gear range with less redundant gears?

Pure speculation on my part. Thoughts?

joe1234
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by joe1234

I think that the new 12 Speeds gruppo It's only a Record version for the cassette (for now) and not the Super Record version...

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Calnago
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by Calnago

morrisond wrote:One other 12sp Thought this morning.

If you ran an 12 sp 11-29 Cassette - Could you run 53/34 in the front? There should be enough chain wrap capacity - but is the FD Cage big enough to span the 19 tooth Difference?

You could a lot overall usabable gear range with less redundant gears?

Pure speculation on my part. Thoughts?
That would be a huge gap functionally even if it could be done physically. It’s rare that I’m not simultaneously shifting the rear 1,2, or less often 3 cogs as I change chain rings up front, depending on the circumstance. That puts me right where I want to be in one fell swoop, both front and rear changing instantly. A gap up front of 19 teeth would mean a simultaneous 3 cog change at the rear much more frequent, which I don’t really like. Plus, the potential for chain drop would go way up with that big of a gap. Think back to when chaincatchers really started catching on.... it was right around the time that the compact 34/50 rings were becoming popular (and Andy Schleck was learning to shift). The added vertical distance between the rings all of a sudden saw way more dropped chains than before. I remember riding a popular organized ride back then and was stopping an inordinate amount to help people with... what else... dropped chains. And invariably, almost all those situations were on compact cranks. Now I wouldn’t even consider a compact crank without a chain catcher. I put them on all my bikes regardless, just good insurance.
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themidge
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by themidge

Also, unless you're really heavy and powerful; if you need a 34 you don't need a 53, and vice-versa.

jih
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by jih

53/34 would be almost like a triple minus the middle ring. Like, a tripple without the ring that you use 90% of the time.

In practice I think you'd find you were 'between' the two rings too often, with a lot of cross-chaining.

morrisond
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by morrisond

joe1234 wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 3:59 pm
I think that the new 12 Speeds gruppo It's only a Record version for the cassette (for now) and not the Super Record version...
It's Super Record 12sp Cassettes as per Campy's Website for both Record and Super Record - same thing with Chains.

morrisond
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by morrisond

themidge wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 5:45 pm
Also, unless you're really heavy and powerful; if you need a 34 you don't need a 53, and vice-versa.
That's me heavy and powerful.

morrisond
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by morrisond

The difference between 53 and 39 is 26.4%, 52 and 36 is 30.8% and 53, 34 35.8%, Yes you are right it would require a shift of one more in the back vs 53/39 and about half of one vs 52/36.

Yes the chain coming off could be the big issue. However as the RD has Capacity for 11-32 with 50/34 or 52/36 theoretically it should work.

It could neat to try though - it would give a super wide spread of 130.1 Gear Inches to 31.7 A nice 310% spread.

scb
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by scb

Anybody heard anything further on 12 speed EPS?

c60rider
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by c60rider

scb wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 4:03 pm
Anybody heard anything further on 12 speed EPS?
End of the year before we hear anything on that

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Kjetil
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by Kjetil

morrisond wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 7:05 pm
joe1234 wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 3:59 pm
I think that the new 12 Speeds gruppo It's only a Record version for the cassette (for now) and not the Super Record version...
It's Super Record 12sp Cassettes as per Campy's Website for both Record and Super Record - same thing with Chains.
The narrowing made the chain Super it seems. I really cannot see any other difference to the 11 speed Record chain than the width. There's never been an 11 speed Super Record chain.
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