Campagnolo 12-Speed

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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themidge
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by themidge

No full bikes I can't think of, but the general direction of manufacturers. We keep hearing that '1x is the future' and 'front derailleurs are unnecessary', which I think is a real shame.
:hello:
Cannondale Supersix 2008 (weight: 7.3kg)
B'twin Triban 540 (in bits)
Vitus "Benotto" 979 (weight: :? )
Pre-War Hetchins Brilliant (weight: it's a touring bike)

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

I'm sure the market will eventually verify all those high horse claims like "you need a gravel bike", "1x is simpler and better", "discs are the future of road bikes" etc. like all marketing department made fashions, those will pass too. I bet many of those who are going to buy a 1x as their first road bike or generally start riding with all those novelties, will at some point realise they've been made fools of. after all, what works on the road has been in a process of continous development for decades now, and if you look closely, the changes that stick are pretty damn minor (especially if you lay them out in time). in the end it all goes down to what makes us faster - and IMHO 2x12 falls in that category easily. on the other end of that stick everything that limits (even potentially) our performance is doomed to fail. yeah, there's always this bunch of "early masochists" who will claim "less is better", " heavier is lighter", "slower is faster", "oval is the new round" or "higher is lower", but these are the folks we overtake on the daily basis, without breaking a sweat. so go on, make them producers easy dollars, ingesting one BS after another. I really don't mind, but stop telling people who ride for years, who know what they need and what works for them, that some piece of crap is "a new thing". it's not. we know better. period.
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wingguy
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by wingguy

themidge wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:25 am
No full bikes I can't think of, but the general direction of manufacturers. We keep hearing that '1x is the future' and 'front derailleurs are unnecessary', which I think is a real shame.
But 1x is only gonna be super low geared if you choose a small front chainring size. A lot of 1x setups will have similar high end and less low end than an average 2x.

So if you aren't seeing super low geared full bikes for sale, in what way do you feel the industry is pushing super low geared 1x solutions?

mattr
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by mattr

themidge wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:39 pm
Yeah, triples are definitely a dying breed, understandably, as they aren't particularly necessary for most riding, not to mention uncool. Shimano used to make a triple all the way up to 105 level (or maybe even ultegra?) but now I don't think you can even get a Tiagra one.
Dura Ace triple, and Campag had a record triple.
You want a decent triple now, you need to buy a trekking chainset, think XT comes with a 26/36/48, not sure if M8000 includes one.
Or alternatively, something from A.N.Other manufacturer.

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corky
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by corky

Once the gravel riders, rough riders, adventurist realise there are no coffee stops in the country they’ll be back raging through the city centres on their ‘racing bikes’ .......

Zakalwe
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Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:15 pm

by Zakalwe

mattr wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:08 pm
themidge wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:39 pm
Yeah, triples are definitely a dying breed, understandably, as they aren't particularly necessary for most riding, not to mention uncool. Shimano used to make a triple all the way up to 105 level (or maybe even ultegra?) but now I don't think you can even get a Tiagra one.
Dura Ace triple, and Campag had a record triple.
You want a decent triple now, you need to buy a trekking chainset, think XT comes with a 26/36/48, not sure if M8000 includes one.
Or alternatively, something from A.N.Other manufacturer.
Or Campag Athena 3x11

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themidge
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by themidge

wingguy wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:16 pm
themidge wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:25 am
No full bikes I can't think of, but the general direction of manufacturers. We keep hearing that '1x is the future' and 'front derailleurs are unnecessary', which I think is a real shame.
But 1x is only gonna be super low geared if you choose a small front chainring size. A lot of 1x setups will have similar high end and less low end than an average 2x.

So if you aren't seeing super low geared full bikes for sale, in what way do you feel the industry is pushing super low geared 1x solutions?
In my original post I didn't mean that '1x' and 'super low geared' were necessarily attached to each other, though they aren't mutually exclusive with all these new wide range 9/10-40 cassettes which allow both quite hard and very easy gears (somewhat depending on chainring size, of course). Even if a lot of people are fine with and would use a 12 speed 11-29*, you can't get away from the fact that some people will hardly ever use the biggest few sprockets, and the lack of choice to run closer range, 'harder' gears with the new 12 speed drivetrains is a shame.

*On a side note, I've been thinking about using a wider range casssette (11/12-28, which i have at the moment but never use the 28) and increasing my inner chainring size, as I often find myself rather far down the cassette on less steep hills.
:hello:
Cannondale Supersix 2008 (weight: 7.3kg)
B'twin Triban 540 (in bits)
Vitus "Benotto" 979 (weight: :? )
Pre-War Hetchins Brilliant (weight: it's a touring bike)

mattr
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Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

Zakalwe wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:32 pm
Or Campag Athena 3x11
So long since i've looked at Campag (as a buyer, fitted plenty) i didn't even know that existed!

Zakalwe
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by Zakalwe

They've hidden it away pretty well on their website, can only find it through google I think but it's there - no idea how long for though.

c60rider
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Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

Athena seems to have gone from double to only triple post 2015 as I refurbished my old steel bike last year and upgraded it to 11 speed and wanted the alloy inner lever that Athena has. It was triple everywhere but it looks like they're going to be changing all the groups in the next year or two now 12 is out. I'd be surprised if they don't keep a triple option somewhere as that would suit touring in the mountains especially with a fully laden bike.

jih
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Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:54 pm

by jih

Zakalwe wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:32 pm
Or Campag Athena 3x11
Weird thing is, on a road triple you spend all day in the middle ring on most rides. Especially if you have a 42t middle. You hardly shift the front, whereas on a double you shift the front quite a bit.

So riding 1x feels more like 3x than it feels like 2x.

2lo8
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by 2lo8

jih wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:45 am
Weird thing is, on a road triple you spend all day in the middle ring on most rides. Especially if you have a 42t middle. You hardly shift the front, whereas on a double you shift the front quite a bit.

So riding 1x feels more like 3x than it feels like 2x.
Except you don't have to make gearing compromises to make sure you have high enough or low enough gears.
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Calnago
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by Calnago

jih wrote:
Zakalwe wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:32 pm
Or Campag Athena 3x11
Weird thing is, on a road triple you spend all day in the middle ring.
Only if you ride all day on pretty flat ground, with no hills or descents, and don’t want to go too fast or too slow. In which case, sure... you may as well only have one ring. In fact, a single speed may be all you need. My dad got me one of those when I was 8.
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kgt
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by kgt

+1


XCProMD
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by XCProMD

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