Campagnolo 12-Speed

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

Moderator: robbosmans

BigBoyND
Posts: 1350
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
Location: Berlin, DE

by BigBoyND

What's a fact? That there's more friction? Sure. Doesn't mean they won't do it if its already being done for road (Sram, 3T) and gravel (Ekar).

You're arguing that it's not mechanically efficient. I'm just saying they might do it anyway.

As to "why":
1. Just look at the size of the biggest cog. By going to 10t, you can scale the rest of the system down by 10%.
2. How often do you use your 11t? If you see a bit more friction when you're bombing down a hill, it is only a miniscule period of time and a negligible contributor to efficiency relative to wind. And I mean single digit watts relative to the four digit watts in wind resistance.

PS: I also prefer 11t. The 12sp 11-34 cassettes are perfect (campy and R9200) for my use. But I wouldn't put it past Campy to add a 10t on road cassettes.

User avatar
kytyree
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:55 am
Location: US

by kytyree

I haven't ridden Ekar, but when I used an e*thirteen with a 9 on my gravel bike it made me think I'd never want a 9 on a road bike. And I'd agree for 2x it's unnecessary, if you want lots of range it's available.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Butcher
Shop Owner
Posts: 1925
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am

by Butcher

Just wait, Sram does and Shimano will.

The amount of friction for the average rider is nothing. Heck a loose jersey probably does worst. Who rides in the 53/11 on the flats? Nobody.

Somebody need to make a 11-27 12 speed cassette. I sure wish Campagnolo was reading these threads.

Nickldn
Posts: 1867
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

There has been a verbal backlash against SRAM's 10t with matching smaller chainrings on WW and other forums, but not sure it's really impacted AXS sales.

I see Shimano are promising bigger chainrings for 12s and we all see the pros using 55t+ in the TT stages on the TDF.

But the reason pros use big chainrings in these stages is the straight chainline it gives them at 55kph (think middle of cassette), not because a smaller cassette cog is that much less efficient.

For the majority of us a 10t cog will only be used downhill, so efficiently is less of an issue and the benefits of lower gearing that is not dinner plate size will be appreciated. And for those racing TTs, I would think bigger chainrings with a 10t cassettes will also be fine.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg

Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg

SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress

ghisallo2003
Posts: 742
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:10 pm

by ghisallo2003

Butcher wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:28 am
Just wait, Sram does and Shimano will.

The amount of friction for the average rider is nothing. Heck a loose jersey probably does worst. Who rides in the 53/11 on the flats? Nobody.

Somebody need to make a 11-27 12 speed cassette. I sure wish Campagnolo was reading these threads.
Campag is well aware from the service centres of a call for 11-27 and 12-27.

The 12 speed rear mech is designed to work with larger cassettes and performance will be compromised by using smaller. This from the SC.

robertbb
Posts: 2179
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am

by robertbb

Why not a 12-32? Like their old 12-29 but with a 32 on the end.

That would be the ideal cassette with a 48/32 setup up front, for 99% of riders who don't race.

User avatar
kytyree
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:55 am
Location: US

by kytyree

I think that size cassette and a sub compact would also be a good setup on many of these newer bikes that are very capable on the road and can handle nicer gravel roads with the right tires.

usr
Posts: 889
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

If you want something for off road get something purpose built, if you want road but somewhat compromised just put on a tire that sacrifices rolling resistance for sidewalls that don't burst open whenever a piece of rock looks at them the wrong way. And be done with it. Even a Pantani-era road miracle will be very much good enough for not turning around when you happen to run into something unpaved, except for the tire vulnerability.

User avatar
Kjetil
Posts: 2853
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:17 pm
Location: Hamar, Norway
Contact:

by Kjetil

There is very little demand for road cassettes starting at 12t.
Bianchi-Campagnolo
The Specialissima
Gylne Gutuer, the UCI 1.2 bike race I invented.

Nickldn
Posts: 1867
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

Kjetil wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:18 pm
There is very little demand for road cassettes starting at 12t.
12t minimum cassettes expired at the same time as 53t chainrings.

Now that mostly everyone rides 48t, 50t, or 52t chainrings a 11t sprocket is useful for descents.

For those who do choose 53t chainrings 11t is also a must, as they are the fastest and most powerful riders who would not be interested in riding a bike without an 11t.

Oh wait, maybe there's also another group who remain on 53t, but can't even get close to using the 11t. They really should change to 48t, or 50t and stop wishing for cassettes starting with 12t. :D
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg

Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg

SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress

JohnHP
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue May 18, 2021 1:00 am

by JohnHP

Anyone know if it's possible to get the maximum smoothness inner shift cable only? Thinking of changing my cable routing and I don't want to throw out the outers that are only 7 months old.

joeyb1000
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:37 pm

by joeyb1000

JohnHP wrote:
Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:48 am
Anyone know if it's possible to get the maximum smoothness inner shift cable only? Thinking of changing my cable routing and I don't want to throw out the outers that are only 7 months old.
Yes

Cycomanic
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:10 pm

by Cycomanic

Butcher wrote:Just wait, Sram does and Shimano will.

The amount of friction for the average rider is nothing. Heck a loose jersey probably does worst. Who rides in the 53/11 on the flats? Nobody.

Somebody need to make a 11-27 12 speed cassette. I sure wish Campagnolo was reading these threads.
Well Shimano opted for moving to a 54 chain ring instead. I think the 10t on AXS was a failure, and SRAM essentially admitted it by releasing the 50t. Now going to 1x13 on the road definitely sounds tempting, but someone has to come up with a way to avoid drivetrain losses, especially when cross chaining. I'm certain all of shimano/sram/campa are looking into this, but it is generally hard to beat fundamental physics.

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk


User avatar
micky
Posts: 5765
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Vicenza
Contact:

by micky

Nickldn wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:43 pm
Kjetil wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:18 pm
There is very little demand for road cassettes starting at 12t.
12t minimum cassettes expired at the same time as 53t chainrings.

Now that mostly everyone rides 48t, 50t, or 52t chainrings a 11t sprocket is useful for descents.

For those who do choose 53t chainrings 11t is also a must, as they are the fastest and most powerful riders who would not be interested in riding a bike without an 11t.

Oh wait, maybe there's also another group who remain on 53t, but can't even get close to using the 11t. They really should change to 48t, or 50t and stop wishing for cassettes starting with 12t. :D
Image

Butcher
Shop Owner
Posts: 1925
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am

by Butcher

I did notice Shimano's 54/40 idea. If indeed you can't get lower than a 29t, then that would be an idea that could resolve that for people like me.

My idea with what Campagnolo has is a 55/42 but sadly my EPS12 parts are not all here yet. 9 months and counting.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply