Campagnolo 12-Speed
Moderator: robbosmans
What's a fact? That there's more friction? Sure. Doesn't mean they won't do it if its already being done for road (Sram, 3T) and gravel (Ekar).
You're arguing that it's not mechanically efficient. I'm just saying they might do it anyway.
As to "why":
1. Just look at the size of the biggest cog. By going to 10t, you can scale the rest of the system down by 10%.
2. How often do you use your 11t? If you see a bit more friction when you're bombing down a hill, it is only a miniscule period of time and a negligible contributor to efficiency relative to wind. And I mean single digit watts relative to the four digit watts in wind resistance.
PS: I also prefer 11t. The 12sp 11-34 cassettes are perfect (campy and R9200) for my use. But I wouldn't put it past Campy to add a 10t on road cassettes.
You're arguing that it's not mechanically efficient. I'm just saying they might do it anyway.
As to "why":
1. Just look at the size of the biggest cog. By going to 10t, you can scale the rest of the system down by 10%.
2. How often do you use your 11t? If you see a bit more friction when you're bombing down a hill, it is only a miniscule period of time and a negligible contributor to efficiency relative to wind. And I mean single digit watts relative to the four digit watts in wind resistance.
PS: I also prefer 11t. The 12sp 11-34 cassettes are perfect (campy and R9200) for my use. But I wouldn't put it past Campy to add a 10t on road cassettes.
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Just wait, Sram does and Shimano will.
The amount of friction for the average rider is nothing. Heck a loose jersey probably does worst. Who rides in the 53/11 on the flats? Nobody.
Somebody need to make a 11-27 12 speed cassette. I sure wish Campagnolo was reading these threads.
The amount of friction for the average rider is nothing. Heck a loose jersey probably does worst. Who rides in the 53/11 on the flats? Nobody.
Somebody need to make a 11-27 12 speed cassette. I sure wish Campagnolo was reading these threads.
There has been a verbal backlash against SRAM's 10t with matching smaller chainrings on WW and other forums, but not sure it's really impacted AXS sales.
I see Shimano are promising bigger chainrings for 12s and we all see the pros using 55t+ in the TT stages on the TDF.
But the reason pros use big chainrings in these stages is the straight chainline it gives them at 55kph (think middle of cassette), not because a smaller cassette cog is that much less efficient.
For the majority of us a 10t cog will only be used downhill, so efficiently is less of an issue and the benefits of lower gearing that is not dinner plate size will be appreciated. And for those racing TTs, I would think bigger chainrings with a 10t cassettes will also be fine.
I see Shimano are promising bigger chainrings for 12s and we all see the pros using 55t+ in the TT stages on the TDF.
But the reason pros use big chainrings in these stages is the straight chainline it gives them at 55kph (think middle of cassette), not because a smaller cassette cog is that much less efficient.
For the majority of us a 10t cog will only be used downhill, so efficiently is less of an issue and the benefits of lower gearing that is not dinner plate size will be appreciated. And for those racing TTs, I would think bigger chainrings with a 10t cassettes will also be fine.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress
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Campag is well aware from the service centres of a call for 11-27 and 12-27.Butcher wrote: ↑Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:28 amJust wait, Sram does and Shimano will.
The amount of friction for the average rider is nothing. Heck a loose jersey probably does worst. Who rides in the 53/11 on the flats? Nobody.
Somebody need to make a 11-27 12 speed cassette. I sure wish Campagnolo was reading these threads.
The 12 speed rear mech is designed to work with larger cassettes and performance will be compromised by using smaller. This from the SC.
If you want something for off road get something purpose built, if you want road but somewhat compromised just put on a tire that sacrifices rolling resistance for sidewalls that don't burst open whenever a piece of rock looks at them the wrong way. And be done with it. Even a Pantani-era road miracle will be very much good enough for not turning around when you happen to run into something unpaved, except for the tire vulnerability.
There is very little demand for road cassettes starting at 12t.
12t minimum cassettes expired at the same time as 53t chainrings.
Now that mostly everyone rides 48t, 50t, or 52t chainrings a 11t sprocket is useful for descents.
For those who do choose 53t chainrings 11t is also a must, as they are the fastest and most powerful riders who would not be interested in riding a bike without an 11t.
Oh wait, maybe there's also another group who remain on 53t, but can't even get close to using the 11t. They really should change to 48t, or 50t and stop wishing for cassettes starting with 12t.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress
Well Shimano opted for moving to a 54 chain ring instead. I think the 10t on AXS was a failure, and SRAM essentially admitted it by releasing the 50t. Now going to 1x13 on the road definitely sounds tempting, but someone has to come up with a way to avoid drivetrain losses, especially when cross chaining. I'm certain all of shimano/sram/campa are looking into this, but it is generally hard to beat fundamental physics.Butcher wrote:Just wait, Sram does and Shimano will.
The amount of friction for the average rider is nothing. Heck a loose jersey probably does worst. Who rides in the 53/11 on the flats? Nobody.
Somebody need to make a 11-27 12 speed cassette. I sure wish Campagnolo was reading these threads.
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Nickldn wrote: ↑Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:43 pm12t minimum cassettes expired at the same time as 53t chainrings.
Now that mostly everyone rides 48t, 50t, or 52t chainrings a 11t sprocket is useful for descents.
For those who do choose 53t chainrings 11t is also a must, as they are the fastest and most powerful riders who would not be interested in riding a bike without an 11t.
Oh wait, maybe there's also another group who remain on 53t, but can't even get close to using the 11t. They really should change to 48t, or 50t and stop wishing for cassettes starting with 12t.
I did notice Shimano's 54/40 idea. If indeed you can't get lower than a 29t, then that would be an idea that could resolve that for people like me.
My idea with what Campagnolo has is a 55/42 but sadly my EPS12 parts are not all here yet. 9 months and counting.
My idea with what Campagnolo has is a 55/42 but sadly my EPS12 parts are not all here yet. 9 months and counting.
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