Campagnolo 12-Speed

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

The first SR parts have been spied in the U.K. Supply and demand. Given people pay quite alot for Campagnolo SR EPS there will be customers for 12 speed. Shimano may be cheaper but because of that it appeals to a different customer.


TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Yep, trickling into the US too.

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jih
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by jih

guyc wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 4:02 pm
Looks like it's around £2600 for the SR 12 speed mechanical here.

£1750 for Record.

For reference Dura-Ace 9100 mechanical can be had for around £1200 here, and 9150 Di2 for £1850 or so.
£850 more for SR than Record is a large premium to pay for the 'super' label.

Record starting to look like a bit of a 'lost' groupset. People who want the best at any price will get SR. People who want bang for buck will get Chorus. Is non-super record filling much of a market neiche these days?

I realise this will not be everyone's opinion, but personally I wonder if there are many early adopters of 12 speed who don't also want EPS. I know a lot of people like mechanical, but I would imagine people who want to stick with mechanical aren't also the people who want 12 speed on day one.

c60rider
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by c60rider

jih wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 10:03 am
guyc wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 4:02 pm
Looks like it's around £2600 for the SR 12 speed mechanical here.

£1750 for Record.

For reference Dura-Ace 9100 mechanical can be had for around £1200 here, and 9150 Di2 for £1850 or so.
I realise this will not be everyone's opinion, but personally I wonder if there are many early adopters of 12 speed who don't also want EPS. I know a lot of people like mechanical, but I would imagine people who want to stick with mechanical aren't also the people who want 12 speed on day one.
So on that assumption Campagnolo will not sell any mechanical 12 speed groupsets to start with seeing as eps isn't available for 6 months plus. I'm sure the contrary will be the case that 12 speed mechanical will be sold equally as well as the previous 11 speed. I don't think it matters whether you're eps or mechanical if you want 12 and want a new gropset you'll buy it straight away I don't see why eps users would be earlier adopters than mechanical users. There will be a very small number who will just want the latest and sell what they currently have at the first opportunity. I'm a mechanical user on SR and if I was about to put a new bike together I'd be waiting for 12 to hit the market and get that than buy existing 11. I'm not so I have no reason to buy a new group. That's just me others will be different.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

I want it and I want it now! Lol. But I don’t want to give up any of my “children” to get it. I prefer mechanical over any electric system, wired or wireless. If mechanical cost more than electric, I’d pay more. I’ve been riding around on EPS V3 lately, not mine (testing), and I can still shift faster with more options available anytime, all the time, with my finely tuned mechanical system. So far, electric systems provide some bells and whistles that do nothing to provide superior performance for me (aside from multiple shift points for TT bikes etc). They still have to physically move the same chain across the same cogs and same chainrings as the mechanical systems do, across essentially the same parallelogram as well. Now... maybe if they came up with a truly “articulating” derailleur that could move sideways, forwards, backwards, at various angles like some precision medical robotic arm, etc., then shifting would undoubtedly be improved, but at what cost. It’s a bicycle after all. The only downside to mechanical vs electric is that so few seem to have the ability to actually “dial it in” perfectly, given what I see. With electric, you plug everything together, zero out the shifting, and voila you’re there. But there’s something very satisfying (to me), about being able to dial in a mechanical system that functions better (not just equally) to an electrical system. Plus I enjoy the process. On the other hand, my friend’s wife “needs” electric shifting. I mean, she truly needs it. She will never be “one” with her bike. She will never be able to “feel the wires” (as Cancellara used to say), never be able to just feather that cable tension to the very edge of a shift waiting for that exact moment to complete it, or back off instantly should the situation suddenly change. She needs a button, just “git ‘er done”. And I get that and support it, for her and others like her. But for me there’s something very fun about being able to throw around the chain any way I desire at any time, and never ever have to worry about plugging it in, ever.
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“It went Pop when it stopped,
And Zip when it moved,
And whirrrrr, when it stood still...
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And I guess I never will.”
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bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

I find the EPS shift better under load and low cadance. IT also only requires a very light touch on the shifters for a change to happen. front shifting also seems quicker most of the time from 39T to 53T as i only have to touch the paddle rather than move it all the way accross. clutching at straws though. mechanical works fine.

Who says chorus will survive. It think thats the groupset in danger as there is potenza below it doing the same thing but without carbon and ultrashift.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

^Agreed, and for the most part it’s about personal preference at this point. I like the “movement” of the levers versus the “light touch”. And yes, shifting the front at low cadence under load can be done with electric, but I cringe when I see (and hear) people doing that. It “can” be done with mechanical too, but you are able to immediately feel how bad that is for your drivetrain so you kind of ease up, which only makes matters worse. Whereas the motor doesn’t care, it was just told to push that chain onto the big ring so that’s what it’s going to do, crying drivetrain be damned. But a bad shift is a bad shift, regardless of whether it’s being accomplished by an electric motor or a hand/finger. And that is why my friend’s wife “needs” electric. She just can’t seem to figure out the difference between a good shift and a bad shift. We’ve all given up trying to teach her. Just give her EPS, or Di2 already.
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LionelB
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by LionelB

I am riding EPS v2 and many SR and R mecha on current bikes and actually like both. I would not mind switching one to 12s SR . If only any of these groups were toast it would help but when you have too many bikes you never wear out anything :) I have an almost new SR RS in boxes too.... So I may not be in the early adopter category this time around.

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Magnum
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by Magnum

LionelB wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 3:24 pm
I am riding EPS v2 and many SR and R mecha on current bikes and actually like both. I would not mind switching one to 12s SR . If only any of these groups were toast it would help but when you have too many bikes you never wear out anything :) I have an almost new SR RS in boxes too.... So I may not be in the early adopter category this time around.
Good luck wearing out your groupsets - I'm still using 2001 Chorus (had a few new chains and cassettes over the years) and it works perfectly!

ParisCarbon
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by ParisCarbon

Well Shimano XTR 12 is just around the corner... can only assume Dura Ace will be soon.. guess the fights on!!

ooo
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by ooo

what is sprocket pitch or total cassette width?
'

c60rider
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by c60rider

Cassette width is the same as 11 speed everything is just a fraction thinner

2lo8
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by 2lo8

jih wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 10:03 am
£850 more for SR than Record is a large premium to pay for the 'super' label.

Record starting to look like a bit of a 'lost' groupset. People who want the best at any price will get SR. People who want bang for buck will get Chorus. Is non-super record filling much of a market neiche these days?
Has there been some new news that Campagnolo is updating Chorus to 12 speed? I was under the impression they're axing it and Record is taking its place in the Campy heirachy based on weight.
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AJS914
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by AJS914

There's been no news on Chorus other than it will remain as 11 speed for the time being. One could imagine Campy eventually making Chorus and Potenza 12 speed as they have always done in the past.

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

r4nd0mv4r14bl3 wrote:Any reason why 12-speed EPS could not be just a software update of the 11-speed shifters and derailleurs? Of course, this is not what they will be doing because of sales. But, hypothetically, why would it not work? Cassette width is the same, just swap 12-speed chainrings and cassette, reprogram the movement of rear mech.
Probably because the current 11 speed EPS isn’t physically compatible with 11-29 or 11-32?


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