Morgon Blue Aqua Proof Paste

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

So we all know this stuff is great for threaded installations and and press fit bb cups. All advice is not to use in hubs - I assume it's bad for bearing performance - it's super sticky. But is it OK to have a cartridge bearing slathered with the stuff? I have a couple of Treks where cartridge bearings sit in a greased shell. Can I use Aqua Proof Paste for that? Also what about greasing the inside of Campagnolo Ultra Torque cups with it? Not for Super Record with the exposed bearings of course - but for Record which appear to have standard sealed cartridge bearings. My concern would be the Aqua Proof Paste migrating inside the cartridge and getting to the bearings.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

AJS914
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by AJS914

It may not be the best bearing grease but I don't see how it would damage ultra torque bearings. It's just synthetic grease.

by Weenie


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Calnago
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by Calnago

NO! NO! NO!
And in case I wasn't clear.... NO!

Keep it away from bearings, period. It's got good adhesion properties and prevents corrosion. So, I'll use it in places that don't see movement, but can often seize up over time. Pressfit BB's, Pressfit Headset cups, Waterbottle cage bolts, Threaded Direct Mount Brake bolts,... stuff like that. But never where it could come in contact with actual mating bearing surfaces. It won't actually harm the bearings, but if you want to convince yourself why you don't want it around them, you could either pack a clean bearing full of the stuff then try spinning it, or in the alternative... go for a run in waste deep quicksand and see how fast you are.

Your Trek is not a trure Pressfit application even though a proper press is really nice to ensure those bearings are fully seated. And even though it's a "slipfit", sometimes you can press them in by hand, other times you can't. The only thing to use in your BB90 BB shell should be grease. The only time I would recommend something else there is if all else has failed and your just trying to make the best of a bad situation. I've done some extreme things, but not on a Trek. But if I did, I would clean out the BB shell so that it's compeltely grease and contaminant free. Use CleanStreak, or acetone. Then, I'd clean the OUTER surface of the bearings thoroughly as well. I'd use a thickish retaining compound like Loctite 638 I believe, plus the primer (7469 I think), and only apply a little retaining compound to the outer surface of the bearing only... and just a little. I wouldn't use Loctite 609 here because the gap, being slipfit, is too big. BB90 is not an interference pressfit. Then I'd press in the bearings and leave it, press intact, for 24 hours. As it cures... wear nothing but your finest cycling kit and pray on the hour, every hour, that it works and you can ride off into the sunset creak free. Upon removal, when the time comes.... the tool will only be able to access the inner race of the bearing (same as it always was), but theres a chance on punching out the bearing that the inner race (and bearings) could punch out, leaving the outer race still intact. I don't think this would be the case, as I've never had occasion to do it, but I suppose it could be possible. In that case, you'd have to use some additional black magjc to get the outer race out, but all doable.

Re the Ultratorque cups... same thing... keep this stuff away from the inside. Grease only.

I once had a creaky FSA MEGA EXO BB shell, where the bearings are pressed into the cups. FSA said to use a retaining compound between the bearings and cup (which are an interference pressift). It was my first time using a retaining compound, so I lathered up both the outer bearing surface and the inside of the cup surface. Trouble was, when I pressed in the bearings, the retaining compound got pushed back and squeezed up and around back into the bearings itself. The retaining compound mixed with the grease of the bearings created a nice thick sludge type of compound that acted more like putty around the bearings than grease. That's why on these types of applications, you only want to put it on the outer surface of the bearing, to avoid squishing it up the backside when you press it in. Primer on both surfaces however.

The retaining compound will harden up within 24 hours and not move. If you tried the same thing with Morgan Blue Aquaproof Paste it doesn't harden up, but rather remains viscous and could quite easily find its way into your bearings.

For what it's worth, Praxis Works, with similary pressed in bearings, uses a retaining compound as well, similarly to how the MegaExo BB I described above is assembled. You just have to be careful with it.

Cal
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

joejack951
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by joejack951

Calnago wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:28 pm
I'd use a thickish retaining compound like Loctite 638 I believe, plus the primer (7469 I think), and only apply a little retaining compound to the outer surface of the bearing only... and just a little. I wouldn't use Loctite 609 here because the gap, being slipfit, is too big.
Loctite 609 will fill gaps up to 0.15mm and cure to full strength: http://tds.henkel.com/tds5/Studio/ShowP ... lant=WERCS

No reason to avoid it for slip fit bearings, which should have a max clearance in the 0.025-0.05mm range.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

You could try it, for sure, but it has quite a very watery consistency (very thin)... and that's the reason I'd avoid it for slip fit bearings which are quite loose. Trek specifies Loctite 638 when installing the Campy adpaptor kit for their BB90 shells, and those seal seats also have a loose slipfit. After using 638 in that application I tend to prefer it anywhere that it's not an interference pressfit. And if I recall, @Mr.Gib's BB90 shell has seen better days. But either way, it'd be a last resort in this situation. Mr. Gib... Did you ever get a set of those slightly oversize bearings that Trek had in stock for situations I presume like yours?

And we can only wish that all carbon BB clearances were made to such exacting tolerances as to fit into the formal definition of 0.025-0.05mm clearance. This is the bicycle industry, after all.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

So Calnago, you believe that Aqua Proof can get past the dust cover and seal of a cartridge bearing and get to my balls? No one likes sticky balls. I could see it interfering with the rotation of the dustcover slightly, but getting to the balls? I am skeptical. The stuff is so tenacious that I though it would be a good for reducing the service interval of all of my slip fit bikes. There is an account online of someone who used it for his BB30 installation and was very pleased. Apparently for big rides in the rain it can outlast anything else on a chain. I have lot of the Trek bb bearings, perhaps I should experiment. I would hold off on putting it in my Campy cups until I get a definitive OK.

To answer your question about the oversize Trek bearings, indeed I did have an oversize bearing put in the non-drive side of my Boone with the out of spec bb shell. Works perfectly. It takes up the play that was present, silent, working perfectly.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

joejack951
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by joejack951

Calnago wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:05 pm
This is the bicycle industry, after all.
You have a good point.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Well, I doubt you’d hurt anything if you want to use it for that. Peanut butter might work pretty well too. I’ve used Marine grease as well. But when you have nice smooth running bearings, that spin so nicely, why would you want to mess that up. But you’re probably right, just squeezing it into the BB90 shell should be fine and like you say, it’s not likely to get your regular grease in the bearings too contaminated since they’re sealed and all. So go for it.
I kind of thought you were still trying to somehow fix your Boone, which is a different matter altogether.
But I’d certainly be keeping it away from any Campy CULT bearings, otherwise what’s the point of even having ‘em. Same goes for your balls.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
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Calnago
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by Calnago

Ya know, Mr. Gib... on second thought, and given what you're trying to accomplish... why not slather on a bunch of Aquaproof Paste between the bearing and the shield... just keep it away from the Campy type CULT bearings. I've alwasy cringed a little bit with the way the Shimano bearings peep out of the edge of the BB shell by a millimeter or so on a Trek BB90. So, I've always just put a thick layer of grease, completely filling the gap around the circumference of the bearing and the shell, and on top of the bearing, and then allow the shield to just mash it all together and ooze out the edges, to be wiped off. Marine grease works well too. That's the only way to really get that protective water barrier. Otherwise, water flowing down the frame around the edge of the BB shell really had no place to go but in between the bearing and the shell. The trouble with this method, is that grease oozes out every where, it's kind a messy and attracts a lot of dirt. Bearings are realtively cheap. We know that the Aquaproof paste is thick and tenanciously adhesive (without actually being a glue), and the best part... repels even salt water and prevents corrosion :). Now that I know you're not trying to resolve a creaking BB issue, but just trying to prolong intervals between a good cleaning, I'm on board. I'm sure it will still ooze out the sides, since I'd apply it the same way I just described with the grease, and maybe it will be harder to clean, I don't know. It starts out nice and clear, but I think we know once mixed with the elements that won't be that way for long.

Funny thing about my Trek Emonda SL, is that even though it's a dedicated rain bike, with the fenders and flap almost down to the ground, absolutely no road grime gets sprayed up at the BB area, and I was surprised when I took it apart just to see how things were doing in there, it was cleaner than my road bikes which only occasionally get subjected to a rain storm, etc. But I guess it only takes one good storm to throw water and crud everywhere without fenders.
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kode54
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by kode54

i use Aquapaste in areas to keep out water. not for greasing any bearings as Calnago says. its a sticky mess and works well to repel water in areas that water tend to creep into...like BB and headsets. i don't use it near my hubs. great stuff when used in the right areas.
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PinaF8
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by PinaF8

I love my kogel aqua paste. Used it religiously when mounting pf86 bb and headset. Works perfectly and can wash my bike without worries of water intrusion to the bearings.
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Calnago
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by Calnago

Yup, and that’s exactly what it’s for. Curious, is the Kogel Aqua Paste the same stuff as Morgan Blue Aquaproof Paste, just rebranded?
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

Back to the Campagnolo application, I just installed new cups into my Colnago EP (Italian threaded) and they come pre-greased with a fairly tenacious amber coloured substance. Similar in some respects to Morgon Blue. I just left it there and did a standard install but it has me thinking that Morgan Blue might be very good between the outer bearing races of the Campy crank and the interior of the cups. Maybe at the next service. I did use the Morgan Blue and the fixing bolt threads. :thumbup:
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

That’s definitely a grease in the cups. The MB Paste would be good for the threads but I’m not putting it on the inside of my Campy cups. I’ve never had an issue there at all with using some nice grease, that could just as easily be used in the hubs or bearings. In fact, I’m using the Morgan Blue Competition Campa Grease for anything that entails moving parts and where I do not want sticky tenaciousness.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


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boysa
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by boysa

+1. That is the exact combination I've settled on. MB Comp Campa grease for bearings, and their Aqua Proof for everything else.

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