Horizontal or sloping stem Deda, Thomson or other for traditional Look/Campagnolo carbon bike?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
c60rider
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

I'm totally undecided which way to go on this but what I do know is I don't like what I've got. 18 months ago I changed the bars/stem on my winter bike to deda superzero with a view to my subsequent C60 having them on as well. I ultimately disliked them so much I've recently changed the bars back to the original Deda Newton deep. Having got all this rewired and taped up the end result is I still don't like the superzero stem. It's the angle of it on this bike more than anything else.

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Ever since fitting it the angle has always looked much steeper than the previous zero 100 I had on before (this is a 110mm stem whereas the superzero is 120). So I decided to experiment a bit and put the zero 100 stem back on and it definitely looks shallower. More on that in a moment.

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Based on how it seemed to look I decided to put both stems next to each other on the same tube to compare.

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It is a little deceptive in that from the side profile the superzero stem does become fatter as it approaches the handlebar clamp (which exaggerates the angle) but they are definitely not the same angle when you compare the print which follows the centre line of the stem. They're both advertised as 82 stems. So I'm wondering in the first instance were the older versions of the zero 100 (about 7 or 8 years old I'm guessing on this one) a different angle as this is not the same as the newer superzero. Both are now advertised as 82 degree stems.

In relation to what I'm asking I think this bike would look far better with a shallower angled stem. If deda did a 73 (or -17 however you measure it) stem then I would immediately buy that. As they don't then I'm open to people's opinions. Deda superleggera stem to match the bars and with it being a round stem wouldn't look so angled and steep? The other option is a Thomson X2 in 17 degree size which would give me a horizontal stem matching the top tube. The other reason for going with this is that there is a Thomson elite seatpost fitted as that was the only one I could find in 25mm dia after the original Look ergopost started to split. I'm unsure with the Thomson stem as it only has 2 fixing bolts on the front.

Any thoughts on what would look best, feedback on the Thomson stem and any other options greatly appreciated. :beerchug:

Just found an old picture with the superzero bars fitted. I couldn't get on with the shape at all and couldn't get the lever hoods high enough in conjunction with a nice position for the flat tops, they were always angled up instead of aero flat, and the actual shape of the curve of the handlebar drop just didn't suit me. These are the rhm shape and the levers were pulled up as high as was possible to get them before the bars started to flare out for the aero top.

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Last edited by c60rider on Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Eleven21
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:08 pm

by Eleven21

Thomson x2 17deg would look fantastic. I have them on two 'metal' bikes with horizontal top tubes.


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Guevarca
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:49 am

by Guevarca

I had similar thoughts when I fitted a Superzero stem as looked to point up more, however I think it is due to the fact that it’s not as deep - i.e the section on the steerer itself is shorter than a Zero 100 - 36mm against 40mm which lends it to look like it goes up at more of an angle?

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Calnago
Posts: 6011
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Ha!... I went through this exact scenario with the new Subzero stem as it was one of the options I was considering on my C60...
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=142391&start=15#p1273882

Here's the issue... the bottom edge of the Subzero is in fact the -8 degree angle advertised. But the top edge follows the profile of what a -6 degree profile would be. Furthermore, the stack height of the stem collar is only 36mm vs a standard 40mm. It just makes for a weird looking profile in my opinion. So, you have to take into account how many spacers you use under the stem in order to have them end up in space where you want. For me, I just didn't like the profile as your eye will narturally follow the top edge of the stem versus the bottom, giving it more of a -6 degree look than a -8.

Looking at your bike, I agree... it would look better with a -17 stem but that would drop things between 1.5-2cm at the hoods, so you'd have to be able to accommodate that change fit wise. Since from the pic it looks like your stem is pretty much slammed, so trying different stem options is all you can do, since you can't cut any more steertube. A concern with the Superzero stem is that it looks like there's no steertube left above it. This means that if you were to use say, the Deda Zero 100 that you show, with it's 40mm stack height, you'd have to remove the 5mm spacer and place it right on top of the headset. If you don't, you could find that the top of your steer tube doesn't really fill your stem anymore, and the top of it may be dangerously close to where the upper stem bolt's clamping force is, or even below it. So, changing stems now, even another Deda of -8 degrees is going to lower your bars by 5mm right off the bat, unless you've got enough steertube to accommodate plading the new stem on top of the 5mm spacer that's there now.

I don't know why Deda decided to make the stack height a very awkward and completely non-standard 36mm instead of 40mm. I saw your pic with the two stems mounted on the same steertube. I laughed, because I went through the exact same scenario figuring it all out.

I ended up going with a Pro-Vibe stem... they have a -10 degree angle.

Cal
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

c60rider
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

Calnago wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:53 pm
Ha!... I went through this exact scenario with the new Subzero stem as it was one of the options I was considering on my C60...
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=142391&start=15#p1273882

Here's the issue... the bottom edge of the Subzero is in fact the -8 degree angle advertised. But the top edge follows the profile of what a -6 degree profile would be. Furthermore, the stack height of the stem collar is only 36mm vs a standard 40mm. It just makes for a weird looking profile in my opinion. So, you have to take into account how many spacers you use under the stem in order to have them end up in space where you want. For me, I just didn't like the profile as your eye will narturally follow the top edge of the stem versus the bottom, giving it more of a -6 degree look than a -8.

Looking at your bike, I agree... it would look better with a -17 stem but that would drop things between 1.5-2cm at the hoods, so you'd have to be able to accommodate that change fit wise. Since from the pic it looks like your stem is pretty much slammed, so trying different stem options is all you can do, since you can't cut any more steertube. A concern with the Superzero stem is that it looks like there's no steertube left above it. This means that if you were to use say, the Deda Zero 100 that you show, with it's 40mm stack height, you'd have to remove the 5mm spacer and place it right on top of the headset. If you don't, you could find that the top of your steer tube doesn't really fill your stem anymore, and the top of it may be dangerously close to where the upper stem bolt's clamping force is, or even below it. So, changing stems now, even another Deda of -8 degrees is going to lower your bars by 5mm right off the bat, unless you've got enough steertube to accommodate plading the new stem on top of the 5mm spacer that's there now.

I don't know why Deda decided to make the stack height a very awkward and completely non-standard 36mm instead of 40mm. I saw your pic with the two stems mounted on the same steertube. I laughed, because I went through the exact same scenario figuring it all out.

I ended up going with a Pro-Vibe stem... they have a -10 degree angle.

Cal
This is what's leaning me towards the Thomson stem as the horizontal stem will look right and it also has a 36mm stack height as the superzero. But then there is the issue with being the best part of 20mm lower. I am flexible enough to cope with that plus being my winter bike means I'm likely to be on the tops/hoods most of the time. I'd need to test whether to go with a 110mm stem instead of the currrent 120mm so that would bring me a bit closer and accommodate the extra drop a bit better. I've used the excellent stem comparison site to compare this http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/stem.php

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Calnago
Posts: 6011
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Forget the charts etc. You'll only know by trying it out, and it's not like you have to cut your steertube anymore, so it's no big deal... you get the stem, try it out, so easy... if it works great. If it doesn't, at lesat you know your limits. Sell the stems that don't work. Experiment.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

BigDog
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:28 pm

by BigDog

Go -17! Will look great.

I had a -12 on my Look KG241, worked brilliantly

c60rider
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

The Tune Geiles Teil 4.0 is another -17 stem along with the Thomson though it's pretty up there on price. But it does have a 4 bolt face plate unlike the Thomson. Anyone got any feedback on these?

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Rumsas
Posts: 554
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:25 pm

by Rumsas

I also have had Big problems finding a nice stem to match those thin tubed traditional frames. I dont like Them to beafy either. So my favorite is the long gone oval concepts -17. But ritchey could also work. Some of the older Pro plt Stems also looks good, they are -10 degrees, wich also makes a differens. You can always debadge

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corky
Posts: 1172
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:53 pm
Location: The Surrey Hills

by corky

-12 for an extralite but maybe too fat tubed, deda superleggera would look nice.

shimmeD
Posts: 387
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:52 pm
Location: eNZed

by shimmeD

With a level top tube, most definitely 17deg stem; with the bar tops horizontal gives you the best streamlined look and arguably most aero.
Disclosure: I have a Look KG381i in black. It currently has a Uno 17deg stem with Deda RHM bars.
All my stems are 17deg (Ritchey WCS on English, Thomson X2 on my track bike)
Less is more.

uraz
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:48 pm

by uraz

Stem should always be an extension of a top tube and match it's slope, so in this example only acceptable angle is -17 deg (at least from a visual point of view).

DJT21
Posts: 178
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:35 pm

by DJT21

If aesthetics is a priority, then a -17 would look best. However, the Pro PLT stem with a -10 angle also looks ok with a horizontal top tube. The brand of the stem is not too important as generally the logos can be removed with acetone. The Pro PLT is quite "thin/slim" aswell.
The Deda Superleggero would probably be best, but it's unavaible in -17 AFAIK.
A Thomson stem would match your seatpost, but the clamp on them is pretty poor and they're quite heavy. I don't rate them.

Also, I would swap the seatpost for one with a small degree of setback as aesthetically this looks better, compared to an inline post with the saddle pushed backwards. Some good options would be Deda Superleggero/Deda Zero 100 (the new 2018 model looks good)./Cannondale C1

c60rider
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

DJT21 wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:59 pm

Also, I would swap the seatpost for one with a small degree of setback as aesthetically this looks better, compared to an inline post with the saddle pushed backwards. Some good options would be Deda Superleggero/Deda Zero 100 (the new 2018 model looks good)./Cannondale C1
I'm totally in agreement with the seatpost I really don't like it but if you can find me any seatpost other than a Thomson in the obscure 25.0mm diameter that these Look frames require then I'll buy it. Spent months searching to find Thomson is the only make and they only do the inline post in that diameter. The C1 is a nice looking one but at 25.4 so I'll have a look and see if there's any possibility of squeezing this in. I know the lugs are alloy so I could nip a tiny bit from the inside of those but I can't remember if the carbon seat tube is flush on the inside as well in which case it might not go in but worth a look at least :thumbup:

c60rider
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

So I eventually settled on a Deda Superleggera stem as the drop was going to be too much for the -17. Interestingly it has the same 36mm collar as the superzero stem whereas the zero100 is 40mm so at least I wasn't compromised there with an already slammed stem. What I was able to find though was a brand new Look ergopost in 25.0mm diameter and in the original matt finish. I've been searching for one of these for 5 years since the original started to split and had to settle with the straight Thomson that I've never liked and I was thrilled to find the ergopost on Bellati sport all for the price of £90. Shabby looking used ones are often £150 on ebay so it's finished the bike off perfectly for me. Also put on the P2M type S 4 arm that are going for a good price at the moment as well.

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The Look ergopost I love these :mrgreen:

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