Power2Max NG Eco or Stages LR?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Hahaboy
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:29 pm

by Hahaboy

hogehoge wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:57 pm
Can you run 9100 chainrings on the P2M spider?
sure can fit

TimW
Posts: 476
Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 1:52 pm
Location: England, UK

by TimW

Bordcla wrote:Getting a new Canyon with Shimano drivetrain and looking for a power meter. Given experience with other systems, the ability to use a Shimano crank or at least chainrings is a key consideration.

Options would include the new DA 9100 P power meter, Pioneer, Stages or P2M. I don't want to switch to Garmin pedals.

Based on functionality and price, Stages LR and P2M are my two main options.

What's the word on usability and reliability? P2M seems to be consistently in the "just works" category, and is priced quite well at $640 all in. The only downside I can think of is having to use a Rotor 3D 24 crank with my Shimano chainrings. Not sure if it is in any way inferior to the Ultegra cranks that come with the bike?

I currently have a previous gen Stages on my bikes and haven't had reliability problems in a long time, though I did experience drop outs initially.

Including the price of a new compact crankset (which I'm going to be buying at some point even if I get the P2M), the Stages is a bit more expensive, at $1K all inclusive.

What would you get if you were in my shoes given the considerations highlighted above?
As above P2M had three of various gens and never a single problem..gen1b still going strong.

I've also got an FSA Powerbox which is basically just a rebadged NGeco. The battery cover works just fine. Does not do LR Balance or BT without upgrade. Since L/R balance is basically a meaningless metric, I dont miss it.

For me pedals are a problem, I've smashed pairs in crashes before and would be doubly annoyed about it if my PM.



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fogman
Posts: 774
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:36 pm

by fogman

Is anyone still getting the rechargeable NG now that the NGeco is available. I am curious if the rechargeable battery is an advantage given it has a shorter life than the replaceable coin cell battery has (NG = 150 hours vs. NGeco = 400 hours).


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Last edited by fogman on Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
It's all downhill from here, except for the uphills.

jfranci3
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:21 pm

by jfranci3

You can also just carry a spare coin with you if you dont want to change it out preemptively

Bordcla
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:42 pm

by Bordcla

Thanks for the advice. Ended up ordering the P2M NG Eco with the Rotor 3D 24 cranks. Looking forward to testing it out!

xntrickly
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:13 pm
Location: North Texas USA

by xntrickly

[quote=Bordcla post_id=1384961 time=1520302720 user_id=72265]
Thanks for the advice. Ended up ordering the P2M NG Eco with the Rotor 3D 24 cranks. Looking forward to testing it out!
[/quote]


Post up your impressions once you're set up please and thanks... find myself looking at the same setup as you and am curious about accuracy and the ability to maintain accuracy.

Cheers.

Bordcla
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:42 pm

by Bordcla

xntrickly wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:12 pm
Bordcla wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:18 am
Thanks for the advice. Ended up ordering the P2M NG Eco with the Rotor 3D 24 cranks. Looking forward to testing it out!

Post up your impressions once you're set up please and thanks... find myself looking at the same setup as you and am curious about accuracy and the ability to maintain accuracy.

Cheers.
Accuracy is very hard to validate at home, has calibration requires expensive calibration equipment. As regards accuracy vs other meters, I only have a Stages to compare with, which I will not be able to compare with.

As far as informal comparisons go, perhaps someone with power pedals and or a smart trainer can chime in, or better yet, you might want to check out DC Rainmaker's review, in which he compares with 2 or 3 different meters and smart trainers.

I will post impressions anyway, however!

c60rider
Posts: 240
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

fogman wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:41 am
Is anyone still getting the rechargeable NG now that the NGeco is available. I am curious if the rechargeable battery is an advantage given it has a shorter life than the replaceable coin cell battery has (NG = 150 hours vs. NGeco = 400 hours).


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Bought my Campagnolo NG a year ago when they came out and I think I charged it up only 3 times during the spring/summer/early autumn when I used that bike. Now that the eco is out I don't know which one I'd buy now. The NG is showing as 300 euros more than the eco on their website. The 3 upgrades are 50 euros each so that's still 150 more for the recharging option. That's a lot of batteries you can get through at that price. The only thing is how easy it is to get at that battery. The NG you just pop the front off and plug it in. My type S you have to get in behind, pop the grommets out, unscrew it to get the battery out but not really a chore to do every few months. So yes I'm not sure the NG is really worth buying now but I'm happy with mine as I am the Type S.

Briscoelab
Posts: 1730
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:01 pm

by Briscoelab

Boshk wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:23 am
You can get a NG-eco 3d24 with shimano 4 bolt. Same bb, the easiest switch you can get I think, pull out your DA or Ultegra crank, remove chainrings, fix them onto your P2M and you are done, only thing is, its a Rotor crankarm/set, or you can pay 99euro more and get Praxis rings in whatever config you want.
This is what I just did. Super simple swap and the 9000 rings look good on it. I just got some 9100 rings in and will be installing them this weekend. I think the darker color will look even better with the 3d24 arms.

Briscoelab
Posts: 1730
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:01 pm

by Briscoelab

c60rider wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:09 am
fogman wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:41 am
Is anyone still getting the rechargeable NG now that the NGeco is available. I am curious if the rechargeable battery is an advantage given it has a shorter life than the replaceable coin cell battery has (NG = 150 hours vs. NGeco = 400 hours).


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Bought my Campagnolo NG a year ago when they came out and I think I charged it up only 3 times during the spring/summer/early autumn when I used that bike. Now that the eco is out I don't know which one I'd buy now. The NG is showing as 300 euros more than the eco on their website. The 3 upgrades are 50 euros each so that's still 150 more for the recharging option. That's a lot of batteries you can get through at that price. The only thing is how easy it is to get at that battery. The NG you just pop the front off and plug it in. My type S you have to get in behind, pop the grommets out, unscrew it to get the battery out but not really a chore to do every few months. So yes I'm not sure the NG is really worth buying now but I'm happy with mine as I am the Type S.
The battery on the NGeco is right on the front as well. Just pull off the cover and change it, no taking the crank off, etc.

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TonyM
Posts: 2008
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

As you have already a Stage powermeter on your other bike, I would suggest you to get another Stages so that you can compare your values whatever bike you use. Stages is said to have slightly higher values than other powermeters (so my experience also) but if both bikes have Stages, then this is not a problem then.

tomee
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:52 am

by tomee

is the P2M a true LR meter?

jfranci3
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:21 pm

by jfranci3

No.

djel
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:29 am
Location: Montreal, CA

by djel

tomee wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 1:26 am
is the P2M a true LR meter?
nope.

With the NGeco you can upgrade to L/R readings for 50$. It's a gimmick anyway because its strain guauge is in the spider, not in both arms. The power read is accurate, but I don't believe the split L/R is.

edit: I love my NGeco btw! I had a Stages 2nd and a Pioneer (both on Ultegra crank) and I didn't like the spikes in the reading. I have had reliability issues but I just find them hard to keep a steady wattage versus my P2M. I think it's common to all lef-side only PM...

c60rider
Posts: 240
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

tomee wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 1:26 am
is the P2M a true LR meter?
I have the NG that's got the L/R metric and it's an estimation. It takes power measurement from both sides as when you're pushing down with the left leg there's strain on the spider on the right side. So unlike the left leg only power meters like Stages your overall power is taken from both legs as is the case for the NGeco. What the NG does, and if you pay the extra on the eco, is split that power to provide how much is being produced from the 12 o'clock position down to the 6 o'clock on each crank and presents that as power or % ratio L to R (at least it does on my Garmin 520. My 510 only gives me the ratio split). Nobody pedals like that and it doesn't take into account any pulling up of the other while you're pushing down on the other side but it gives you an idea. You can use it accurately to do some single leg reps indoors probably. That would highlight exactly how much power you can produce with each leg but then that isn't how anyone would pedal when both feet are attached so I'm not sure of the benefit of doing that. There's plenty of debate and doubt about what having accurate 2-sided power measurement does for you. It's likely to be being pushed by the pro teams to have separate L/R power meters so until we find out how they're using them it's probably pretty pointless for us mere mortals.

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