Potenza shifters with new Centaur 11 rear mech?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
JoO
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 7:30 am

by JoO

freehub wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:57 pm
JoO wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:04 pm
bm0p700f wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:02 pm
The spring in the derailleurs look fixed to me i dont think there is any way they can upgraded.
you could try to put a 1 mm washer beween the hanger and derailleur.
That would 'load' the spring a bit.

Might not help a lot but it is worth a try.
I am not sure that a 1mm displacement would improve response of running Ultrashift shifters with weaker spring Powershift rear derailleurs...what I run. Reason is...spring rate is less about displacement than it is the potential energy of the spring based upon wire stiffness, number of coils, wire diameter of the spring itself.

But will ask, is your posited suggestion something you have done with success if running Ultrashift levers with PS rear derailleurs?
Just doesn't seem viable to me it would help even fractionally to wind the spring a hint more.
Thank you.
No personal experience. I read about the washer in a thread were people were looking to find a way to use their derailleur with the biggest last cog possible.

by Weenie


freehub
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:23 pm

by freehub

JoO wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:05 pm
freehub wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:57 pm
JoO wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:04 pm
bm0p700f wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:02 pm
The spring in the derailleurs look fixed to me i dont think there is any way they can upgraded.
you could try to put a 1 mm washer beween the hanger and derailleur.
That would 'load' the spring a bit.

Might not help a lot but it is worth a try.
I am not sure that a 1mm displacement would improve response of running Ultrashift shifters with weaker spring Powershift rear derailleurs...what I run. Reason is...spring rate is less about displacement than it is the potential energy of the spring based upon wire stiffness, number of coils, wire diameter of the spring itself.

But will ask, is your posited suggestion something you have done with success if running Ultrashift levers with PS rear derailleurs?
Just doesn't seem viable to me it would help even fractionally to wind the spring a hint more.
Thank you.
No personal experience. I read about the washer in a thread were people were looking to find a way to use their derailleur with the biggest last cog possible.
That is interesting...but don't think it would help a lazy shift much down the cassette due to higher friction UltraShift levers used with Powershift rear derailleur for the reason I mentioned.
Sure wish I could change the spring out in my PowerShift rear derailleurs versus having to replace them to be have the stouter spring.
If I go that route, I sell both pre 2015 shifters and PS derailleurs and go with new Chorus shifters with greater chain wrap and different pull ratio. Campy sure plays a successful (for them) shell game on cross in-compatibility and planned obsolescense. If you like Campy, that's the price of admission.

robertbb
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

AJS914 wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:59 pm
For a while it may have been necessary to mix Chorus/Record levers with a Potenza rear derailleur or the medium cage, but now you can get a Chorus HO Medium rear derailleur for under $200. Why bother trying to mix and match now?
Agreed, I've just bought a Chorus HO Medium rear. Looking forward to better shifts!
It's ALL about the bike.

RobertBB's CyclePlanner Spreadsheet:
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 8&t=152263

freehub
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:23 pm

by freehub

robertbb wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:17 am
AJS914 wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:59 pm
For a while it may have been necessary to mix Chorus/Record levers with a Potenza rear derailleur or the medium cage, but now you can get a Chorus HO Medium rear derailleur for under $200. Why bother trying to mix and match now?
Agreed, I've just bought a Chorus HO Medium rear. Looking forward to better shifts!
Robert, I presume you matched new Chorus HO Med cage rear derailleur with Chorus HO shifters aka latest gen.
What did you have before your new Chorus HO Med rear derailleur...were you running a Potenza HO rear derailleur which is Powershift?

AJS914
Posts: 2123
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

I could be wrong but I don't think shifters are designated as HO.

freehub
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:23 pm

by freehub

AJS914 wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:59 pm
For a while it may have been necessary to mix Chorus/Record levers with a Potenza rear derailleur or the medium cage, but now you can get a Chorus HO Medium rear derailleur for under $200. Why bother trying to mix and match now?
AJ,
Do you have a link to a seller of Chorus HO Med rear derailleur under $200?

Also, do you know the maximum cassette rear cog size (tooth count) one can run with a Chorus HO Med rear mech?

Thank you

AJS914
Posts: 2123
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

I just bought mine for $190 from probikekit but they seem to be asking $205 now. When I google for a Chorus rear derailleur and I see that Excel has it for $189. A few other places have the same price.

freehub
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:23 pm

by freehub

AJS914 wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:58 pm
I just bought mine for $190 from probikekit but they seem to be asking $205 now. When I google for a Chorus rear derailleur and I see that Excel has it for $189. A few other places have the same price.
Thanks AJ...appreciated.

Any links to Campy's hard to decipher ;-) documents on max rear cog size with Chorus mid cage HO rear derailleur?

AJS914
Posts: 2123
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Max rear cog is 29 with the regular derailleur and 32 with the medium cage rear derailleur. Also, 32 is the largest cogset Campagnolo sells.

freehub
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:23 pm

by freehub

AJS914 wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:19 pm
Max rear cog is 29 with the regular derailleur and 32 with the medium cage rear derailleur. Also, 32 is the largest cogset Campagnolo sells.
Thank you AJ. Of course we know that 11s cog spacing between Sram, Shimano and Campag to be virtually indistinguishable...fractions of a mm across entire cassette. For that reason I prefer Shimano freehub wheels and run lower cost Ultegra 11s cassettes which may be available bigger than 32t and of course there is a chance they will work fine with mid cage for not only biggest cog clearance to the pulley but also for chain wrap with a compact crankset.

AJS914
Posts: 2123
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Personally I prefer to be all Campy. I don't want shifting that is only 98%.

I would be hesitant to try and exceed 32. If you have some issue where the rear derailleur jams and breaks your hanger you could end up with some nasty results.

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 3795
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
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by bm0p700f

32T can be exceed on some bikes safely. it just depnds on your hanger shape. as I said earlier with my record 10 speed med cage I have a had a 12-32T 10 speed cassette with 53/39T and all was well. the max cog for that RD was 29T.

I think 34T would work on my genesis equilbrium with a potenza med cage RD. Banford bikes have found some triple RD's can cope with a 40T cog.

robertbb
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

freehub wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:51 am
robertbb wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:17 am
AJS914 wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:59 pm
For a while it may have been necessary to mix Chorus/Record levers with a Potenza rear derailleur or the medium cage, but now you can get a Chorus HO Medium rear derailleur for under $200. Why bother trying to mix and match now?
Agreed, I've just bought a Chorus HO Medium rear. Looking forward to better shifts!
Robert, I presume you matched new Chorus HO Med cage rear derailleur with Chorus HO shifters aka latest gen.
What did you have before your new Chorus HO Med rear derailleur...were you running a Potenza HO rear derailleur which is Powershift?
No, my 2017 Chorus levers will work fine. The only change to the derailleur is a slight re-reshaping to make it play better with newer Hydraulic setups (hence the name), but otherwise it remains the same as non-HO.
It's ALL about the bike.

RobertBB's CyclePlanner Spreadsheet:
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 8&t=152263

robertbb
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

freehub wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:51 am
robertbb wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:17 am
AJS914 wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:59 pm
For a while it may have been necessary to mix Chorus/Record levers with a Potenza rear derailleur or the medium cage, but now you can get a Chorus HO Medium rear derailleur for under $200. Why bother trying to mix and match now?
Agreed, I've just bought a Chorus HO Medium rear. Looking forward to better shifts!
Robert, I presume you matched new Chorus HO Med cage rear derailleur with Chorus HO shifters aka latest gen.
What did you have before your new Chorus HO Med rear derailleur...were you running a Potenza HO rear derailleur which is Powershift?
No, my 2017 Chorus levers will work fine. The only change to the derailleur is a slight re-reshaping to make it play better with newer Hydraulic setups (hence the name), but otherwise it remains the same as non-HO.

Previously yes, I was running a Potenza RD. Shifting was "OK", but from my posts above... it would shift perfectly up towards the bigger cogs but hesitate for a few seconds before shifting down towards smaller cogs. I had to tune it almost weekly because, as has also been said in this thread, over time shifting would degenerate.

I looked at the campy documentation; Potenza and Chorus (and Record) share exactly the same mid cage, so an option was to pull mine off the Potenza RD and install it on a short cage Chorus RD (even non-HO), but I just decided to buy the HO.
It's ALL about the bike.

RobertBB's CyclePlanner Spreadsheet:
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 8&t=152263

by Weenie


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