What are the advantages of electronic gears?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
fromtrektocolnago
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by fromtrektocolnago

AJS914 wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:32 pm
Cable fray / cable breakage is primarily a Shimano issue. I've never broken a Campy cable in 35 years of riding.
this is true
Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Trek 5200(ultegra)

by Weenie


TurboKoo
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by TurboKoo

Unfortunately I have had that on Campagnolo 2 times during same season. Last time I had to quit world championships because of that.
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seaneT1
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by seaneT1

The TL;DR
They look awesome and work lovely :)

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Regarding Campagnolo levers... there are two options for routing the derailleur cables. I only use the one option... and that is the one that Campy "preroutes" the cables through on a new set of levers. It takes the cable smoothly over to the front of the bars where you can tape them up underneath or if you have internal routing that works, go that route. I will never use the routing that creates a sharp acute bend out of the lever then routes around the back of the bars... except as a last resort, only option available kind of thing. Two reasons, the first being I just don't like the unsightly bulge it makes under your bar tape, but more importantly... the acute bend will ultimately have you run into the same issue that Shimano levers have... the cable will fray, although not as frequently. I found out the hard way when starting out on a ride, my shifting seemed like s##t and I wasn't sure what was wrong until a strand of derailleur wire poked through the rubber hoods and into my hand. Ouch! So, I've never used that routing since, except for the rare occasion when there is no other option.
As far as cables just "breaking"... I'm sorry... but that rationale for electric over mechanical holds no water at all. Cables don't just break. Not before you've had a whole lot of warning beforehand. Like if you've repeatedly tightened them down 50 times or torqued them so much that it's crushing the cables and breaking the strands. If you even look at your bike every now and then you're going to notice a cable starting to fray long before it actually breaks, and if you keep riding it till it actually does break, well than shame on you. Whereas you get no warning whatsoever when those little electrons decide to take a nap or a different route... things just stop and you're left scratching your head for a while until you run it through the diagnostics or trouble shoot trial and error by replacing components until you fine the problem. It's always pretty easy to source a problem with a mechanical drivetrain... there's little mystery as to why things may have gone awry.
As for shifting... I love my mechanical Campy. I can shift significantly faster than any electronic system out there, and have way more options available for any shift at any time. I rarely shift the front ring without simultaneously shifting the rear 1, 2, or 3 cogs at the same throw. Both front and rear settle in instantly and I'm in the gear my mind and legs wanted just like that. Shimano has Full Syncrho and Semi Syncrho or full manual, but they all have limitations compared to Campy mechanical... there isn't a single shift or combination of shifts available with any of those options that isn't at my instant disposal with Campy mechanical. Boom!... it's done. Front and rear, instant.

The caveat is that I see way too many people with mechanical drivetrains that simply are not even close to running perfectly and it does take a good amount of meticulous effort (you've seen my build threads) to make sure they are. Electric systems are by comparison easy peasy to set up and then they do what they do perfectly. End of story. But I rarely have to adjust anything either. And during the process of setting up my mechanical drivetrains, I pre "settle" the housings for perfect shifting from Day 1. By this I mean I will try to pre bend the derialluer housings a bit so that they are quite relaxed in the curves that they naturally must take getting to the stops. I lightly lube the inner cables... blah, blah... you know what i do. And under those conditions, there's really nothing better to me than clicking positively and precisely through a mechanical drivetrain. Campy mechanical has certainly a different feel that Shimano mechanical, but quite frankly, if you can get your mechanical stuff tuned properly, I'd take either brand's mechanical option any day over the electric version.
But electric has advantages too... TT bikes, or any bike for that matter with internal cable routings that would be problematic for a mechanical drivetrain. Integrated bars/stems... very aero but again, problematic for a mechanical drive train. Maybe you like satellite shift buttons... can't do that with mechanical. Maybe you have a wife, like one of my buddies, who no matter how much we've tried to teach her how to shift properly, she still doesn't get it. I want to put electric shifting on her bike, simply so she can push a button and it will shift. She's often found in the wrong gear and the fact that electric will really force that chain from one chainring to another might be a plus for her, and a simple push of the button. I will say though, that just because an electric system gives you the impression it is shifting better under load, it's not. It'd doing the same thing that if you forcefully jammed that derailleur as hard as you can manually to make that shift. it's just that you're not part of that effort. You've pushed a button, and the motor does the rest, regardless of how bad a time or situation it might be in at that instant. A bad shift, is a bad shift, regardless of whether it's manual power doing it or electric power. But I don't care... in her case... we just want her to be able to get on the right ring when she pushes a button. So we're putting electric on her bike.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

dricked
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:57 pm

by dricked

I like that when I make a change on the front ring and the casette that my levers move exactly the same amount and take the same amount of effort. A click here, a click there, and you’re exactly where you want to be.

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Hellgate
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by Hellgate

fromtrektocolnago wrote:i change my rear derailleur cable ever 2500 miles after having several snap on me. i look at this as the equivalent of charging a batter
In 49+ years of cycling, I've never had a cable "snap," even one from Woolco. I just totally dated myself.

If I followed your program I would have consumed 3 sets of cables last year...

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk


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Hellgate
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by Hellgate

OP, the only thing lighter is your wallet.

That said, I really want Campy to develop a wireless system.

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

IrrelevantD wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:38 pm
fromtrektocolnago wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:07 pm
was on a trip with support. one of the members was on a new bike with di2. a connector got loose and nobody could figure it out for several hours. you can laugh at this but this stuff happens on electronic more than it does on mechanical
Well, I've had more shift cables fray inside the shifter than I've had e-tube cables come lose. Not even sure how that would happen if it was properly plugged in. I'm guessing whomever did the assembly didn't push in the connector until it snapped in place. This is the first time I've heard of an e-tube cable coming lose, but I hear about snapped/stretched/frayed cable issues, or in general issues with mechanical shifting all the time. Just browse through some of the mechanics forums.
The issue isn't because a cable isn't securely plugged in, but rather not leaving a bit of excess cable at the shift levers. If you have the cables too short, and you hit a big pothole, the slight flexing of the handlebar/shift lever will pull out the connector. I had this happen to me on a ride. Shimano's installation manual made a strong point to leave some excess wire. I bet 99% of the Di2 bikes were built not following this specific instruction.

Incorrect way

Image

Correct way

Image
Last edited by pdlpsher1 on Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

fromtrektocolnago
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by fromtrektocolnago

Hellgate wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:57 am


If I followed your program I would have consumed 3 sets of cables last year...

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
me neither until i started using 6800/9000. This wasn't something I did until I had 3-4 cables go or almost go. Once identified moments before a failure by a very diligent mechanic preparing my bike for the gfny ventoux gran fondo
Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Trek 5200(ultegra)

glepore
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by glepore

The Shimano cable issue is real. Its also completely bs that in order to get the lever feel they wanted and the bend they have to use cables that simply wear. Its not just that the cables break, its that the head often falls into the lever, and user error at that point often really screws things up. But that's no reason to go electronic, its a maintenance issue, even if the maintenance is stupid frequent.

I've been on electronic since 7970, and the biggest advantage really is how positive the shifts are with no/little effort. A boon for people with small hands. I wish the tactile feedback was better for Shimano, but Sram is about perfect. It is not, however, failure free. I've had a di2 battery go tits up 30 miles from home for no reason, some internal connection failed and instant nothing. And there's no feeling like grabbing a bike that hasn't been used in a while and 15 miles into 60 having the fd say sayonara because you haven't topped off the battery in a while. Yeah, you'll get home, but with only one ring. User error? Sure, but so is failing to change out your cables.

Good mechanical is really good-Campy is positive, but as I said over in another thread, it strikes me a bit like a Ferrari gated shifter-lots of "snick" - great if you like that feel, but I don't know that it add to function. But it does feel cool, its uber reliable, and the lever/hood shape rocks.
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Cannondale SS Evo Di2 7970 (5.79); Willier Cento Uno Air Di2 9070 (7.0); C40 Mk2 DA 7800 ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

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IrrelevantD
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by IrrelevantD

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:04 am


The issue isn't because a cable isn't securely plugged in, but rather not leaving a bit of excess cable at the shift levers. If you have the cables too short, and you hit a big pothole, the slight flexing of the handlebar/shift lever will pull out the connector. I had this happen to me on a ride. Shimano's installation manual made a strong point to leave some excess wire. I bet 99% of the Di2 bikes were built not following this specific instruction.
Yea, I've always run my Di2 as in your second image and I also leave extra slack inside the tubes and at the RD. There's no reason not to as an extra few CM of e-Tube cable is maybe a handful of grams.
* There is a 70% chance that what you have just read has a peppering of cynicism or sarcasm and generally should not be taken seriously.
I'll leave it up to you to figure out the other 30%. If you are in any way offended, that's on you.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

glepore wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:22 pm
Good mechanical is really good-Campy is positive, but as I said over in another thread, it strikes me a bit like a Ferrari gated shifter-lots of "snick" - great if you like that feel, but I don't know that it add to function. But it does feel cool, its uber reliable, and the lever/hood shape rocks.
What's "snick"? Image
I can't help thinking with all the bikes in my garage, and I'm sure that applies to a few on this forum, if they were all electric, the only way I'd have any peace of mind over wondering it the next bike I took out for a ride was charged or not, would be if they were all charging wirelessly and my entire garage floor was a charging mat. Right now, I could not ride any of them for 20 years, and one day decide, ya know... I want to take that old C60 for a spin, it's nice outside, and I could just pump up the tires and head out. Not likely that's going to happen with any bike that relies on a battery today, and furthermore, that battery will undoubtedly be dead, unchargeable, and not even made anymore at which point you'll have to get a new one, which of course won't be compatible with any of the outdated electrical components of the same vintage as your old battery... etc.
I'm happy with my mechanical, especially because for me at least, it outperforms any electrical groupset available today, in terms of shift speed, shift options, reliability and just plain fun to ride. But damnit... my buddy's wife needs electric shifting, because I could set her up with synchroshift, which is like Training Wheels for shifting, and I don't think she will ever progress further than that. @Godzuki26 understands.
Last edited by Calnago on Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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themidge
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by themidge

What will you do when they stop making cables? Then both your electronic and mechanical bikes will have to go to the museum. :D

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Calnago
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by Calnago

I don’t break cables. But I’ll buy a couple to have on hand if the end looks near. I will be ready for the Armageddon.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


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wheelbuilder
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by wheelbuilder

I absolutely love etap. Could not imagine riding with mechanical Red again ever. The shift is the same. Every time. Regardless of conditions. Regardless of level of fatigue. My favorite thing about etap? Try to picture this scenario........I am approaching a red light intersection. I am holding the bars with my left hand as I reduce speed with my front brake. Simultaneously I am grabbing my bottle with my right hand. As I am drinking with right hand, and applying front brake with left hand, I am also DOWNSHIFTING at the same time with my left ring finger, in preparation for acceleration from light once it turns green.

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