Winter tyres - Tubeless

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
VamP
Posts: 22
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by VamP

You all gonna hate on me, but I ride all year round in all weathers on GP4000SII with latex tubes, and average about one puncture a year. It's not like the roads round here (Cotswolds) are particularly good either. Lived in Cambs before, with plenty of jaunts into Suffolk, and the stats were the same.

It does seem like tubeless is a cure to a problem I don't have. I was using Corsa CX before and the puncture stats were similar. I do think latex tubes are more puncture resistant. I never puncture tubs either.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

there are other reasons for tubeless you know, like feel. Tyres with tubes just feel different and latex tubes are not trouble free either. I used them for a long time and while I had decent luck with them there were a few punctures that occured where nothing went through= the tyre. .Also puncture rate will depend on how heavy you are.

by Weenie


bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

I think it is a mostly luck issue. Some folk are just unlucky with some tyres and lucky with others. It gets put down to the tyre but is possibly not the tyre. Danish roads cant be any harder on tyre than other northern european roads. To say otherwise does not make sense, its a road and Denmark is not the only land mass with lots of flint. Here there are huge lumps of it in every field. Everytime they get ploughed it gets broken up and there seems to be a never ending supply.

Attermann
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by Attermann

i think i will try with the IRC the next time i change my tyres

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Miller
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by Miller

bm0p700f wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:43 pm
there are other reasons for tubeless you know, like feel. Tyres with tubes just feel different
Agree with this. I'm mostly on tubeless; when I've ridden clinchers in the past year it feels like riding on wood, frankly.
Just my opinion, I'm sure many of you have wonderful tubed set-ups.

Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

Tubeless saved me some trouble yesterday. I rode through a puddle that was hiding a major pile of clear glass. Big puncture, too big for the sealant. Tire flat, sealant coating the inside of my mud guard. Pull out my Dynaplug contraption, punched a worm into the hole, hit with the CO2 cartridge and back up an riding. Quick and never had to take the wheel off.

However, the process back in my shop to remove and clean the tire, rim, make all repairs, clean bike, re-seat tire, add sealant, etc, that was a whole bunch more work then you would ever face with a basic clincher/tube arrangement. The way I look at it is easy on the road but a PIA in the shop, which is fine by me. Hate to have problems on the road, in my shop I have the luxury of time and a beer fridge. :D

Hey bm0p700f, I tried Gorilla tape on the inside to back up a couple of slice punctures and the stuff just won't stick to the inside of my Schwalbe Pro One's. I cleaned with alcohol etc. but the surface has a texture that seems to reject the tape. I resorted to superglue and than tape on top of that and it bonded well - is that your "approved" method? Is there a particular brand of tire patch that that you have experience with that I should consider?
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

dvq
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by dvq

Mr.Gib wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:28 pm
Tubeless saved me some trouble yesterday. I rode through a puddle that was hiding a major pile of clear glass. Big puncture, too big for the sealant. Tire flat, sealant coating the inside of my mud guard. Pull out my Dynaplug contraption, punched a worm into the hole, hit with the CO2 cartridge and back up an riding. Quick and never had to take the wheel off.

However, the process back in my shop to remove and clean the tire, rim, make all repairs, clean bike, re-seat tire, add sealant, etc, that was a whole bunch more work then you would ever face with a basic clincher/tube arrangement. The way I look at it is easy on the road but a PIA in the shop, which is fine by me. Hate to have problems on the road, in my shop I have the luxury of time and a beer fridge. :D

Hey bm0p700f, I tried Gorilla tape on the inside to back up a couple of slice punctures and the stuff just won't stick to the inside of my Schwalbe Pro One's. I cleaned with alcohol etc. but the surface has a texture that seems to reject the tape. I resorted to superglue and than tape on top of that and it bonded well - is that your "approved" method? Is there a particular brand of tire patch that that you have experience with that I should consider?
I think I generally agree with you that tubeless makes it more difficult in the shop, than on the road. Here are some tips that I go by that have worked for me:

- When you have fresh sealant on your bike, squirt a water-bottle of water on it to get it cleaned off before it dries off, there's no cleanup needed after.
- There's no need to remove the dynaplug and "patch" the tire, I've successfully ridden out the tire with 2 plugs in to the end of their lifespan, this saves you from unseating, reseating.
- Deflate tire, add more sealant is always a good bet, thankfully, the beads won't unseat unless you try to move them off.

c60rider
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by c60rider

VamP wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:24 pm
You all gonna hate on me, but I ride all year round in all weathers on GP4000SII with latex tubes, and average about one puncture a year. It's not like the roads round here (Cotswolds) are particularly good either. Lived in Cambs before, with plenty of jaunts into Suffolk, and the stats were the same.

It does seem like tubeless is a cure to a problem I don't have. I was using Corsa CX before and the puncture stats were similar. I do think latex tubes are more puncture resistant. I never puncture tubs either.
I'm pretty much in agreement with you on this one I really have no interest in using tubeless just seems to create extra problems either getting them on and sealed in the first place and pretty mixed reviews of the tubeless tyres out there. And all the mess of the sealant. I'm quite happy sticking an inner tube in. I can't remember the last time I punctured and actually I think it was on the rollers of all places about 3 years ago! The fact Continental haven't produced a top end tubeless, in fact I don't think they do a tubeless road tyre at all, says quite a lot.

shimmeD
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by shimmeD

Conti hasn't made a tubeless (yet) not necessarily says a lot. They don't even make a latex tub for the lay punter; does that say a lot too? :roll:
Less is more.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

I would have left the plug in the tyre as well. done thousands of Km on plugged tyres. Also some punctures can be fixed with flexible superglue alone. Got cut on the mavic I am trying out just smeared loctite power flex gel superglue over it and it is holding just fine.

Tubeless is easy in the shop too but you have to know your tyre/rim combo's well enough for it to be easy.

Schwalbe tyres lack a lining so rubber cement, tapes patches e.t.c dont want to stick. Tubeless tyres are best left fitted until they have to be replaced. If it cant be fixed externally bin it as it is probably going to bulge anyway.

As for VamP's comment funny how when I install tyres there is no mess from the sealant (inflate without sealant and get it seated and sealed then inject sealant) and if some sealant leaks on the road I count my blessings it is doing its job. I will say this again all tubeless problems I have read are user error and I really mean that. I dont seem to find any of the problems discussed because I have learnt how to avoid them. For example fit mudguards to your bike during winter it stops everything from spaying up your backside and your bike that includes water. Carry tyre worms 1.5mm and 3.5mm width to plug any hole. If it is a big slit then you can use two worms if you have too to get you home. So many other tricks it the users mindset and skill level that has to change. The fact conti have not released a tubeless tyre says more about the size of the tubeless market for road than how useful it is.

i used to puncture alot with tubes and with conti tyres mostly and I never found a road racing clincher that survived more than 500 miles even in the summer before the dreaded P word . So for some tubeless tyres may not be essential good for you for folk like me tubeless is essential as otherwise I would have to use Schwalbe marathon plus tyres urghh. however those people who think it is more hassle than its worth are still missing out. Having used various high TPI tyres and latex tubes and now tubeless the feel and pace is similar but without the latex tubes suddenly failing, this happened in a race during a emergancy stop once, bang and the race was gone (this is why conti dont sell a latex tube) or short life span of high TPI tyres. Tyres that lasted me 1000 to 1500 miles did me a couple of months not good enough!

VamP
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Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:01 am

by VamP

bm0p700f wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:36 am

As for VamP's comment funny how when I install tyres there is no mess from the sealant (inflate without sealant and get it seated and sealed then inject sealant) and if some sealant leaks on the road I count my blessings it is doing its job. I will say this again all tubeless problems I have read are user error and I really mean that. I dont seem to find any of the problems discussed because I have learnt how to avoid them.
Wasn't me complaining about sealant :D

I don't have an axe to grind, I think tubeless is great for MTB, I have even purchased some tubeless road tyres recently to have a play. I'm pretty open to new technologies, and curious about the 'better road feel'.

But people sell road tubeless as being some kind holy grail, and I don't see that. It's not hassle free, even compared to tubulars, and it's not bombproof. Glad it works for you though. My current thinking is latex tubes for training and tubulars for racing, and tubeless maybe best of both worlds but actually with significant disadvantages against both those technologies as well.

Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

bm0p700f wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:36 am
I would have left the plug in the tyre as well. done thousands of Km on plugged tyres. Also some punctures can be fixed with flexible superglue alone.
I definitely left the plug in the hole, but I had another hole closer to the sidewall that appeared when I tried to inflate the tire. I wanted to patch it (and reinforce another slice) from the inside rather then take a chance on spraying sealant around my workshop or inserting another plug. I don't mind spending time in the shop to get everything perfect. I was just surprised the inside of the tire resisted anything sticking to it.

The Dynaplug system is really great but f******n expensive. When I had the tire off the brass point almost acted like a rivet crimp. The worm was a bit compressed and flared around the puncture on the inside of the tire. I trimmed off the brass point which might have been a mistake in retrospect. Perhaps it plays a role in keeping the plug from being blown out but I doubt it. Those worms are crazy sticky.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

dim
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by dim

I find that the orange sealant is no problem at all when it comes into contact with your bike frame of floor (kitchen floor in my case) .... a damp rag and it wipes off straight away .... it's also not sticky

I have not tried any other sealant yet, so I cannot comment
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ryanw
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by ryanw

38c Panaracer Gravel King, Orange Seal sealant. Perfect combo IMO.
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bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Nothing cycling is hassle free vamp. Tubeless is hassle reducing as you not stuck at the roadside but it can't be hassle free. Bike in general are hassle. I have to get dressed in the morning ride, get changed into normal cloth at work. Fix whatever has gone wrong with the bike, lube the chain.. there's always something. Tubeless is hassle displacement. It displaced from the roadside to the installation which takes 20 mins for a pair of wheels normally. I will take hassle reduction anyday.

Tyres inflated with air are always vunerable to it escaping. Also the reason why there is no durano tubeless tyre is the tubeless market for road is too small. Most people hide on zwift in winter. So there is no point in anyone making one at present. Even durano's are not invunerable.

I use tubs too but find the tubs to be proper hassle. I have to carry at least one spare tub.

by Weenie


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