Tubeless set-up lighter than lightweight tire & tube?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
ryanw
Posts: 494
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:52 pm
Location: London

by ryanw

Fitted my 28c Hutchinson Fusion 5 Performance 11 Storm tyres yesterday.

Bit of a twat to mount, ended up having to use another wrap of rim tape and then they sealed just fine.

Weight of tyres was 284 & 281g.

Popped about 40ml of Orange Seal Endurance in both and inflated to 90PSI to set overnight.
'16 Cervelo S5 - 6650g
'17 Focus Mares Force 1 - 7,800g

by Weenie


kofsw4
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:28 pm

by kofsw4

Haven't mounted them yet but Specialized S Works Turbo 2 BLISS 700 x 28c Tyres both came out around 278gImage

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Once you factor in the spare tubes and levers in your back pocket tubeless is lighter. I carry a light 30g worm kit in my back pocket only. Tubeless is lighter. It's weight weenie even if the tyres are not.

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

kofsw4 wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:29 am
Haven't mounted them yet but Specialized S Works Turbo 2 BLISS 700 x 28c Tyres both came out around 278gImage

Did they update the 2Bliss model to be more like the $100 TLR version?

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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

I've extensively run tubeless with Schwalbe Pro One, Maxxis Padrone and Panaracer Race A Evo 3, as well as many mountain bike tires. On average tubeless setups and tubed are about the same in weight when you factor in carrying around spare tubes. The main problem with tubeless is that rims aren't standardised, tires aren't standardised, most sealant like Stans doesn't work at high pressures, some of the faster tires are very fragile, and some of the tougher tires can be very expensive.

For me tubeless isn't worth it as to get the right tires, sealant and tape it takes expense and delivery time, whereas tubed tires and tires are everywhere. Maybe one day.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Lewn777 wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:27 am
I've extensively run tubeless with Schwalbe Pro One, Maxxis Padrone and Panaracer Race A Evo 3, as well as many mountain bike tires. On average tubeless setups and tubed are about the same in weight when you factor in carrying around spare tubes. The main problem with tubeless is that rims aren't standardised, tires aren't standardised, most sealant like Stans doesn't work at high pressures, some of the faster tires are very fragile, and some of the tougher tires can be very expensive.

For me tubeless isn't worth it as to get the right tires, sealant and tape it takes expense and delivery time, whereas tubed tires and tires are everywhere. Maybe one day.

??? Why would factoring in "spare tubes" change anything? They cancel each other out at worst, and most of us on tubeless just carry DynaPlugs or "worms"/"bacon" unless were are going somewhere remote.

Regarding standards, we've done the work for you. Most modern rims are fine and the Hutchinson made Mavic, Zipp, Pirelli, Hutchinson tires are all very easy to mount/unmount, seat, etc. They seal just fine too as long as you aren't using a clearly inferior sealant like Stan's. If Stan's were the only option, you'd have a point, but Orange Seal, Bontrager's, Boyd's Tickled Pink, Muc-Off No Punctures, etc. all exist and work better.

I'll let you in on this one cool trick. You can buy spare tires, sealant and tape and store them in a drawer. It's a crazy concept, I know!!

I've had way better longevity with tubeless tires than regular clinchers. Normally I start getting chronic punctures as the tread on clinchers get thin. With tubeless, even when the tread gets thin, the carcass is a little tougher. Even if I start getting punctures, they seal rather than forcing me to replace a tube in a clincher only for the new tube to puncture a week later because the worn tread.

kofsw4
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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:28 pm

by kofsw4

TobinHatesYou wrote:
kofsw4 wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:29 am
Haven't mounted them yet but Specialized S Works Turbo 2 BLISS 700 x 28c Tyres both came out around 278gImage

Did they update the 2Bliss model to be more like the $100 TLR version?
I'm not sure but they were £30 each rather than £70 for the higher tpi 24mm and 26mm TLR tyres they make so I thought I would try them out.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

28mm Yksion Pro USTs mounted to 21mm rims @85psi = 30.4mm after a day of stretching. Mounted by hand easily, seated easily, but needed a little bit of help with the initial seal. I basically spun the tire really, really fast so the Orange Seal would spread evenly inside the tire, then deflated the tire and reinflated. This caused a tiny bit of sealant to bubble out from under the bead where some extra sprues/mold lines are. After that the tire is holding air just as well as any previous tubeless set-up.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Tomhates you is correct. All the tyres he mentions though are made by Hutchinson and Hutchison observe the Shimano Hutchinson standard. So does campagnolo and IRC, panracer for road tyres.

There is a standard out there and all the main tyre manufacturers stick to it. Many but not all rim manufacturers stick to it too but not all. It is the rims that are the problem mostly.

Anyone else found the maXxis padrone a really loose fit and difficult to seat and seal?

mentok
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Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:58 am

by mentok

bm0p700f wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:34 am
Anyone else found the maXxis padrone a really loose fit and difficult to seat and seal?
literally JUST got a pair. I'll report back in a few weeks when I fit them.

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Lewn777
Posts: 363
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:55 am
Lewn777 wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:27 am
I've extensively run tubeless with Schwalbe Pro One, Maxxis Padrone and Panaracer Race A Evo 3, as well as many mountain bike tires. On average tubeless setups and tubed are about the same in weight when you factor in carrying around spare tubes. The main problem with tubeless is that rims aren't standardised, tires aren't standardised, most sealant like Stans doesn't work at high pressures, some of the faster tires are very fragile, and some of the tougher tires can be very expensive.

For me tubeless isn't worth it as to get the right tires, sealant and tape it takes expense and delivery time, whereas tubed tires and tires are everywhere. Maybe one day.

??? Why would factoring in "spare tubes" change anything? They cancel each other out at worst, and most of us on tubeless just carry DynaPlugs or "worms"/"bacon" unless were are going somewhere remote.

Regarding standards, we've done the work for you. Most modern rims are fine and the Hutchinson made Mavic, Zipp, Pirelli, Hutchinson tires are all very easy to mount/unmount, seat, etc. They seal just fine too as long as you aren't using a clearly inferior sealant like Stan's. If Stan's were the only option, you'd have a point, but Orange Seal, Bontrager's, Boyd's Tickled Pink, Muc-Off No Punctures, etc. all exist and work better.

I'll let you in on this one cool trick. You can buy spare tires, sealant and tape and store them in a drawer. It's a crazy concept, I know!!

I've had way better longevity with tubeless tires than regular clinchers. Normally I start getting chronic punctures as the tread on clinchers get thin. With tubeless, even when the tread gets thin, the carcass is a little tougher. Even if I start getting punctures, they seal rather than forcing me to replace a tube in a clincher only for the new tube to puncture a week later because the worn tread.
I'm in Asia.
-We haven't Orange Seal here. We have Stans and rebranded Stans small bottles or dried up unusable Bontrager in small bottles or local stuff that would be better used in wheel barrow tires. Basically nobody uses tubeless here for road, only MTB. No demand = no supply even on the local internet. I want a 4 liter or probably I mean gallon jug of endurance Orange seal, but the shipping will probably take ages be very expensive as fluids 'shouldn't' be sent by air. Postage is crippling from the USA, but doable from Europe or other parts of Asia.
-I ride around 2000 miles a month, honestly I just don't have enough money for a draw full of imported tubeless tires. Tubes cost just over $2 (usd) here and a local tube repair 40c. I even have to order regular tubed tires that are strong enough to do the job. All the locals want super fast light tubed tires, but mostly they don't ride far enough to have issues.
-I don't have much time and in my experience I need to clean up my rims and sometimes need to change the tape with each tire change.

If I had big bottles of Orange seal, lots of choice in fast tough tubeless tires, sealed rims or big spools of tape all for reasonable prices within 2000 miles, then I'd happily switch over to tubeless. Fact is, it's way cheaper and convenient not to bother.
Last edited by Lewn777 on Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Lewn777
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by Lewn777

mentok wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:51 am
bm0p700f wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:34 am
Anyone else found the maXxis padrone a really loose fit and difficult to seat and seal?
literally JUST got a pair. I'll report back in a few weeks when I fit them.
I had some. They are not even real tubeless, but 'tubeless ready'. I thought they were garbage, rode like a Schwalbe Durano Plus, same fragility as a Schwalbe Pro One.

I hope you have luck with them. :|

Sad, becuase I've always been a massive fan of Maxxis MTB tires, especially Minions. :roll:

parleez1
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Location: Boston, MAssachusetts

by parleez1

Noctiluxx wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:37 pm
With my set-up, Michelin Power Comp 23mm, and Conti Lite tubes, the weight is roughly 265 grams. So its pretty close. The Michelins roll incredibly well and will be missed :(
Noctiluxx, I was looking at your impressive stable of bikes. How do ypu like your Giant TCR Advanced SL? Just ordered the 2019 with Red etap. Have not previously run tubeless wheels, had tubulars on my last bike, should be an interesting change. How do you rate the Giant compared to all of your other bikes? It looks like it comes in at just under 14 lbs.
Thanks!

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Those Swork tyre are made by IRC I think.

AJS914
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by AJS914

Are there any recommended sealants that won't spray your mates on a group ride if you get a flat?

by Weenie


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