New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

Moderator: robbosmans

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Dan Gerous
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

Hi-Mod vs non Hi-Mod, the difference is just weight. Some people assume the Hi-Mods are stiffer since they use the more expensive fibers with a higher stiffness-to-weight ratio, but they use different layups and more carbon in the non Hi-Mod to achieve the same stiffness and ride feel. For a 2020 SuperSix Evo size 54 like I have, Hi-Mod saves 175gr (frame + fork) so I would assume the difference is bigger for the SystemSix since the tube shapes mean there is more material to begin with.

Regarding the bars, additionnaly to what bet1216 mentionned, the KNØT bars also have more flare in the drops compared to the SAVE bars, 5° vs 3°, about 3cm narrower at the hoods than the drops vs 2cm.

The KNØT stem angle is -17°, the SAVE stem angle is -6°. As mentionned, the stems and bars can be mixed and matched as they share the same attachement and cable routing. The stem's shaped cover that bolts to its underside and the headset spacers are shaped to match the headtube of each frame though, the KNØT for the SystemSix (headtube is more oval, more 'pointy' on its leading edge, deeper) the SAVE for the SuperSix (rounder, less deep headtube). They can still be mixed if you want a higher stem on a SystemSix or a lower one on a SuperSix, but the cable covers and spacers wont be perfectly flush, but it's not that noticable, especially if you don't have spacers.
Attachments
Knot_Save.jpg

Omiar
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:20 pm

by Omiar

Thanks for the info about handlebar.

One more question - what is the BB diameter in a Systemsix frame?
Cannondale PDF
https://www.cannondale.com/-/media/file ... temsix.pdf
says:
Bottom Bracket - BB30A, 73mm (PressFit)
"Make sure the PressFit BB30 system is intended for use "with with a 46 mm I.D

Yet C-Bear chart (https://www.c-bear.com/bbchart.pdf):
BB30A
Cannondale
BB shellIDmm 42

Or is it something like the frame is 46mm ID and you get cups which you can press in and those cups take plain bearing with 42mm OD?
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by Weenie


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Dan Gerous
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

Omiar wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:37 pm
Or is it something like the frame is 46mm ID and you get cups which you can press in and those cups take plain bearing with 42mm OD?
Exactly. The SystemSix is a PF30a frame so the frame shell's BB has a 46mm ID, BB30 bearings have 42mm OD. PF30 is basically cups with BB30 bearings pressed into them. If you stick with C-Bear, they have a PF30A Cannondale column, that's what fits straight into the SystemSix frame without additional cups/adaptors.

Cannondale complete bikes usually have alloy PF30 cups pressed-in with BB30 bearings pressed in those. If you buy a frameset, I think the cups and bearings are included but not installed. It's the lightest setup.

The 'A' in BB30a or PF30a means asymetrical so the non-driveside is 5mm wider, so 73mm wide offset instead of 68mm centered but in most cases, it's just the spacer setup when you install the crankset that changes, usually using the same BB.

danridesbikes
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:27 pm

by danridesbikes

anyone know if its just a 3mm spacer i need on a drive side dub bb?

just switched from a 50t 1x to a 50/37 and the crank arm hit the limit screw, however i noticed the 3mm was on the non-drive side, switched it over and all seems well

https://www.servicearchive.sram.com/sit ... racket.pdf

Hexsense
Posts: 1524
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Did you use correct bottom bracket? And is it wide version of crank arms?
Sram has different bb for pf30 and pf30a.

If the pf30a version is used as it should, the 3mm spacer should be on the drive side for normal crank.
If your crank is wide version (Sram Force Wide, released recently), then it's 5.5mm DS and 2.5mm NDS.

Omiar
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:20 pm

by Omiar

Dan Gerous wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:05 pm
If you buy a frameset, I think the cups and bearings are included but not installed. It's the lightest setup.
Correct. Received the frame yesterday and the cups are included with bearings in them and fortunately for me, are not installed.
CBear has a "dedicated" solution for C'dale and 24mm cranks as does WheelsMfg. From the somewhat lesser end, Token seems to have an option. Didn't find much else. Rotor and Praxis to my understanding, don't have a solution (only for 68mm wide shells).

Frame itself is a bit porky.

Frame Hi-Mod size 56 with stock der hanger: 1145g
Fork uncut: 463g
Knot seatpost uncut (without saddle clamp/binder) 167g
Knot Systembar 42cm 317g
Knot stem 110mm with hardware- 247g

Wow, that stem and handlebar have some serious weight.
Scott Foil Disc 2021 - due to arrive
Cannondale SystemSix R8070
Wilier Jena GRX
Scott Scale 935 build project
Sold:
Scott Foil Disc R8070
Scott Foil R6770
Scott Spark RC900 LTD M8000
Scott Scale 35

Omiar
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:20 pm

by Omiar

Well, I've got most of the bike assembled. Im waiting for the correct CBear BB, so plenty of time to fiddle around.

I fail to understand what is not correct that the plastic underside cover of the Knot stem is not inline with the headset spacers.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Cc62sW ... hOgsx/view
The headset spacers line up with the frame perfectly.
It is the correct Knot stem:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CdvN4C ... QU5XG/view

From the web, it should line up:
https://dbyvw4eroffpi.cloudfront.net/cm ... pacers.jpg
https://cdn-cyclingtips.pressidium.com/ ... 130080.jpg
Scott Foil Disc 2021 - due to arrive
Cannondale SystemSix R8070
Wilier Jena GRX
Scott Scale 935 build project
Sold:
Scott Foil Disc R8070
Scott Foil R6770
Scott Spark RC900 LTD M8000
Scott Scale 35

Hexsense
Posts: 1524
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Aside from plastic cover not align with spacers,

I also think the top bearing compression ring looks a little too thick such that it push the spacer a little more upward than I'd like. I'd try some different compression rings to see which one leave the least space, without having the spacer pressed against the frame.

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Dan Gerous
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

It looks like the stem undercover is for the SuperSix and not the SystemSix, the SuperSix headtube and spacers are less deep, rounder, more blunt...

Omiar
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:20 pm

by Omiar

Hexsense wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:01 pm
Aside from plastic cover not align with spacers,

I also think the top bearing compression ring looks a little too thick such that it push the spacer a little more upward than I'd like. I'd try some different compression rings to see which one leave the least space, without having the spacer pressed against the frame.
The plastic compression ring sits 1,2mm higher than the outer race of the bearing itself. Maybe i will shave the spacer, so it would sit lower and cover more.
Dan Gerous wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:28 pm
It looks like the stem undercover is for the SuperSix and not the SystemSix, the SuperSix headtube and spacers are less deep, rounder, more blunt...
Yes, the undercover is the one with the wrong shape. Oh well, here goes another online order ...
Scott Foil Disc 2021 - due to arrive
Cannondale SystemSix R8070
Wilier Jena GRX
Scott Scale 935 build project
Sold:
Scott Foil Disc R8070
Scott Foil R6770
Scott Spark RC900 LTD M8000
Scott Scale 35

jakkel
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:05 pm
Location: Belgium

by jakkel

Sorry, but can't find it so immediately.

Is there a system to get the outer cables of the cheaper models (e.g. S6 Ultegra) getting into the frame?

Thx
2004 Cannondale F600SL Sobe
2012 Cannondale SS EVO HM SRAM Red
2013 Cannondale F29 carbon2
2017 Cannondale Slate Apex

Omiar
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:20 pm

by Omiar

jakkel wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:46 pm
Sorry, but can't find it so immediately.

Is there a system to get the outer cables of the cheaper models (e.g. S6 Ultegra) getting into the frame?

Thx
With a mechnical groupset the shifting cables go from the handlebar to downtube. Internal routing would result in bad shifting performance.
Scott Foil Disc 2021 - due to arrive
Cannondale SystemSix R8070
Wilier Jena GRX
Scott Scale 935 build project
Sold:
Scott Foil Disc R8070
Scott Foil R6770
Scott Spark RC900 LTD M8000
Scott Scale 35

jakkel
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:05 pm
Location: Belgium

by jakkel

Omiar wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:03 pm
jakkel wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:46 pm
Sorry, but can't find it so immediately.

Is there a system to get the outer cables of the cheaper models (e.g. S6 Ultegra) getting into the frame?

Thx
With a mechnical groupset the shifting cables go from the handlebar to downtube. Internal routing would result in bad shifting performance.
Okay, thanks. :wink:
2004 Cannondale F600SL Sobe
2012 Cannondale SS EVO HM SRAM Red
2013 Cannondale F29 carbon2
2017 Cannondale Slate Apex

dmason
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:49 pm

by dmason

Omiar wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:03 pm
jakkel wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:46 pm
Sorry, but can't find it so immediately.

Is there a system to get the outer cables of the cheaper models (e.g. S6 Ultegra) getting into the frame?

Thx
With a mechnical groupset the shifting cables go from the handlebar to downtube. Internal routing would result in bad shifting performance.
mechanical groupset can be routed internally without any shifting issues

by Weenie


User avatar
Dan Gerous
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

Yes, either with full length housing or with this Soigneur kit. It can add some drag though so if you go full length housing, get quality cables and housing. Another point that can make shifting suffer depends a bit on the frame size and your stem and how slammed it is, the main potential source of drag is from a too tight kink between the stem and the entry point into the frame, once in the frame, the housing don't bend any tighter around the headtube than on external routing.

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