New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

Moderator: robbosmans

woodyvalentine
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:40 pm

by woodyvalentine

Does anyone know which spacers to install on wheels manufacturing PF30A Sram dub Axs?

Their manual is not clear.
I called and spoke with someone that works there and he said he doesn't know/can't answer and was not helpful.
It was like pulling teeth. Just wouldn't answer.

On stock Sram Dub BB it's a 3mm on drive.

Currently set up with Wheels MFG is:
Drive side: 2.5 + 1.0 + 0.5 mm
Non drive: 1.0 + 0.5 mm

Manual attached

https://wheelsmfg.com/tech/PDF/PF30A-OU ... NS-WEB.pdf
Attachments
2814BB1A-0533-4F18-8B45-8D02FC2442EE.jpeg

by Weenie


vneilv
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:47 pm

by vneilv

Hey WW, I've been looking at getting one of the 2021 EF Systemsix frames but I think I'm going to be waiting a while and have found a 2019 BBQ frameset at a good price.

Can I ask is there any difference apart from the paintjob between the 2019 and 2020/2021 models?

Thanks so much.

User avatar
Dan Gerous
Posts: 1984
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

vneilv wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:07 pm
Hey WW, I've been looking at getting one of the 2021 EF Systemsix frames but I think I'm going to be waiting a while and have found a 2019 BBQ frameset at a good price.

Can I ask is there any difference apart from the paintjob between the 2019 and 2020/2021 models?

Thanks so much.
Same frames, different colors.

PrivateAddress
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:55 pm

by PrivateAddress

Hi all --
(including maybe especially Damon Rinard if still around on this forum)

I currently ride a bike with stack = 542 mm and reach = 384 mm but I use a stem that is -17 deg and 130 mm (the handlebar reach = 80 mm and handlebar drop = . I obviously do this to be able to get a low front end. I do not want the bars higher up than that. A bit more reach would be okay, shorter than that would be no good. That's just the way it is.

I am now interested in a 2020 or 2021 Cannondale Systemsix and I am surprised to find out that there seems to be now way to replicate this position.

If I go with a size 54 SystemSix, I get almost the same stack (540) and reach (386), so you'd think all is well. However, the Knot SystemStem is not available in 130, as the max length is 120. So overall reach would be reduced by 8 mm. I assume -- but don't know for certain -- that the SystemStem can be used without any of the special spacers at all (I have never seen a Cannonale-orginal image set up that way) and that the stem itself then doesn't add any more stack than a "regular" stem. Can someone confirm if this is true? Or is (a) at least one spacer needed, or (b) the stem itself already a bit higher just like the spacers are 7.5 mm instead of the regular 5 mm?

Going to size 56 would give only 6 mm more reach (getting to within 2 mm of the current setup) but at the cost of a whopping 20 mm of extra stack that I don't want.

So then maybe another solution would a size 54 but with a different stem/bar. Well that is also no good because (a) things like the Bontrager integrated Aeolus or the Vision integrated Metron 5D/6D only come in -6/-7 deg, and (b) Damon has pointed out that any stem that is not the KNOT should use the cable hole cap to avoid cable rub against the front of the carbon cable tunnel, and in that case I would still end up with 7 + 5 mm = 12 mm more of unwanted stack.

So even though this is the most aero bike, there is no way to replicate the aero rider position that I am currently using? And still no 130 mm KNOT SystemStems on the horizon???

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.........

LM

brearley
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:08 pm
Location: Hull

by brearley

I run a 54 frame with -17 130mm stem and aerofly 2 bars with just a 5mm bearing cover under.

Steveupa on insta has a systemsix slammed with knot bar and stem if you have a look there. It looks as though he runs without any spacers under

PrivateAddress
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:55 pm

by PrivateAddress

brearley wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:52 pm
I run a 54 frame with -17 130mm stem and aerofly 2 bars with just a 5mm bearing cover under.

Steveupa on insta has a systemsix slammed with knot bar and stem if you have a look there. It looks as though he runs without any spacers under
Thanks. Your 5mm bearing cover is the Cannodale-supplied cable collector one? (can't remember if Damon on here called it cable collector or cable hole or something like that, that comes with the bike) I would like to avoid (but doesn't seem possible) a regular + stem combo where the hydraulic hoses come out from under bar tops in that same location as they would come from under the tape if not inside the bar. With Bontragrer Aeolus for example the little cable management system would keep them in place to drop from underneath the stem into the SystemSix cable collector hole.

But I realize I made a mistake with the numbers listed for going with Bontrager Aeolus or Vision Metron. It is worse than I thought. Aeolus bar has 100 mm reach so that gains 20 mm to the hoods and thus I would need only their 110 mm stem but 110 mm at -7 deg stem would already be 19 mm higher then my current 130 mm -17 stem. Then +5 mm height increase for the SystemsSix cable collector cover and we're talking 2.4 CM (!) higher front end.

Agh, if only Cannondale would provde a 130 mm KNOT SystemStem..... none of this would be necessary.

brearley
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:08 pm
Location: Hull

by brearley

No the 5mm cover im using is just a standard 1 1/8th bearing cover without the cable guide.

The aerofly bars cable routing comes out next to the stem. If id done things more patiently what id liked to have done was route the cables through the bars then through some heatshrink tubing to hold to the stem. Ive not looked into it but the specialized aero stem tidies the cable underneath just not sure on the angle or lengths

Hexsense
Posts: 1685
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Specialized Tarmac stem have -6 and -12. However, it is a low stack stem (steerer clamp is 30mm tall rather than normal 38-40mm). So effectively, it's only around 4mm taller than a normal -17 degree stem. Then a plastic cover add a little height on the top to make it looks like normal height stem.
I fit -12, 110mm with a spacer underneath on Supersix Evo in the picture attached. They have 130mm length too.
20200808_101225.jpg
20200808_101238.jpg

PrivateAddress
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:55 pm

by PrivateAddress

Hexsense wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:50 pm
Specialized Tarmac stem have -6 and -12. However, it is a low stack stem (steerer clamp is 30mm tall rather than normal 38-40mm). So effectively, it's only around 4mm taller than a normal -17 degree stem. Then a plastic cover add a little height on the top to make it looks like normal height stem.
I fit -12, 110mm with a spacer underneath on Supersix Evo in the picture attached. They have 130mm length too.
20200808_101225.jpg
20200808_101238.jpg
Thanks. You said Tarmac stem, but did you mean this Venge stem?
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/s-wor ... 20019-1601

A bit unclear from the Specialized information if that shorter steerer clamp really makes it a few mm lower than a standard -6 or -12 stem (weird by the way how they list it as 6 and 12, not -6 and -12; it's not like this is a reversible stem). Did you get that information from Specialized?

Interesting to see all the creative solutions that people have to come up with by buying parts from other bike companies because Cannondale doesn't think anyone would want a low and long front end....

Hexsense
Posts: 1685
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

PrivateAddress wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:50 pm
Hexsense wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:50 pm
Specialized Tarmac stem have -6 and -12. However, it is a low stack stem (steerer clamp is 30mm tall rather than normal 38-40mm). So effectively, it's only around 4mm taller than a normal -17 degree stem. Then a plastic cover add a little height on the top to make it looks like normal height stem.
I fit -12, 110mm with a spacer underneath on Supersix Evo in the picture attached. They have 130mm length too.
20200808_101225.jpg
20200808_101238.jpg
Thanks. You said Tarmac stem, but did you mean this Venge stem?
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/s-wor ... 20019-1601

A bit unclear from the Specialized information if that shorter steerer clamp really makes it a few mm lower than a standard -6 or -12 stem (weird by the way how they list it as 6 and 12, not -6 and -12; it's not like this is a reversible stem). Did you get that information from Specialized?

Interesting to see all the creative solutions that people have to come up with by buying parts from other bike companies because Cannondale doesn't think anyone would want a low and long front end....
No, Tarmac stem not Venge stem. https://www.specialized.com/us/en/s-wor ... 20021-1118
I have both Venge stem and Tarmac stem. Venge stem is chunkier with higher weight (presumably, higher stiffness as they claim it to be stiffer than Zipp SL-Sprint) but more important detail is Venge stem have taller stem stack. Venge stem clamping area is 34mm tall, Tarmac stem is 30.9mm tall. My Bontrager stem is 38mm tall and some other stems are 40mm. Stem angle usually measure from center of the stem clamp. Since the clamp is about 7-9mm lower. Then center point is 3.5-4.5mm lower than most stems. I verify it with another -17 degree stem side by side and can confirm.

PrivateAddress
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:55 pm

by PrivateAddress

Hexsense wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:02 pm
PrivateAddress wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:50 pm
Hexsense wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:50 pm
Specialized Tarmac stem have -6 and -12. However, it is a low stack stem (steerer clamp is 30mm tall rather than normal 38-40mm). So effectively, it's only around 4mm taller than a normal -17 degree stem. Then a plastic cover add a little height on the top to make it looks like normal height stem.
I fit -12, 110mm with a spacer underneath on Supersix Evo in the picture attached. They have 130mm length too.
20200808_101225.jpg
20200808_101238.jpg
Thanks. You said Tarmac stem, but did you mean this Venge stem?
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/s-wor ... 20019-1601

A bit unclear from the Specialized information if that shorter steerer clamp really makes it a few mm lower than a standard -6 or -12 stem (weird by the way how they list it as 6 and 12, not -6 and -12; it's not like this is a reversible stem). Did you get that information from Specialized?

Interesting to see all the creative solutions that people have to come up with by buying parts from other bike companies because Cannondale doesn't think anyone would want a low and long front end....
No, Tarmac stem not Venge stem. https://www.specialized.com/us/en/s-wor ... 20021-1118
I have both Venge stem and Tarmac stem. Venge stem is chunkier with higher weight (presumably, higher stiffness as they claim it to be stiffer than Zipp SL-Sprint) but more important detail is Venge stem have taller stem stack. Venge stem clamping area is 34mm tall, Tarmac stem is 30.9mm tall. My Bontrager stem is 38mm tall and some other stems are 40mm. Stem angle usually measure from center of the stem clamp. Since the clamp is about 7-9mm lower. Then center point is 3.5-4.5mm lower than most stems. I verify it with another -17 degree stem side by side and can confirm.
Okay, I see now. Thanks again. And you do use the original cable collector headset top under the stem, correct? Would you say that one is like a regular 5 mm headset cap or is it a bit taller?
PS: Aerofly II bars seem hard to find right now.

Hexsense
Posts: 1685
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

PrivateAddress wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:41 pm
And you do use the original cable collector headset top under the stem, correct? Would you say that one is like a regular 5 mm headset cap or is it a bit taller?
PS: Aerofly II bars seem hard to find right now.
Correct. It is regular headset cap. I think it is closer to 7.5 to 8mm rather than 5mm.
I'm looking forward to see you use 140mm Tarmac stem on a SystemSix. :D

PrivateAddress
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:55 pm

by PrivateAddress

Hexsense wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:57 pm
PrivateAddress wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:41 pm
And you do use the original cable collector headset top under the stem, correct? Would you say that one is like a regular 5 mm headset cap or is it a bit taller?
PS: Aerofly II bars seem hard to find right now.
Correct. It is regular headset cap. I think it is closer to 7.5 to 8mm rather than 5mm.
I'm looking forward to see you use 140mm Tarmac stem on a SystemSix. :D
I don't know, right now I find all of this too annoying to actually get a SystemSix. Even with your solution, which seems to be the best I have seen so far, I would end up with the cable collector under the stem adding 2.5-3mm (relative to the regular headset cover on my current bike) and then the -12 Tarmac stem adding another 8-10mm (the longer the stem the higher up it will be given that it wouldn't be a -17 horizontal one). Gaining 3W from integrated cables isn't a good aero solution if the bike's handlebar system requires the rider to sit more upright.....

PrivateAddress
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:55 pm

by PrivateAddress

Okay, not completely giving up yet on the idea of a slammed -17 deg 130 mm stem on a SystemSix (although very close to giving up).....

Anyone have any experience with the Deda Vinci DCR stem? Comes in -17 deg and all the way up to 140 length. The Deda manual says "the top aero spacer 5 mm" right under the stem is required and also the "aero headtube cover" is required (so one would use the regular 46 mm diameter one in the case of a SystemSix). That is a total of 10 mm stack under the stem. So one could presumably leave out the SystemSix cable collector headset cover just like the EF pros do (https://cdn-cyclingtips.pressidium.com/ ... dale-2.jpg) and instead use the Deda 46 mm headset cover there.

As I understand it, this would leave a 5 mm gap (the height of the headset cover) between the bottom of the top aero spacer (from which the hydraulic hoses would exit) and the top of SystemSix headtube cable tunnel. The hoses would be visible in that gap. Anyone seen that setup on a SystemSix??? Horribly ugly or kind of okay if that is the only solution to get the right geometry?

Even if never seen such a thing before ... anyone know if there is something special about the 46 mm headset cover that comes with the Deda Vince stem? Or is it just a standard headset cover so that it could in fact be replaced with a super-low-stack one from slamthatstem to reduce the aformentioned gap to maybe just 2-3 mm instead of 5mm?

PrivateAddress
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:55 pm

by PrivateAddress

ryanw wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:52 am
ryanw wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:20 pm
DamonRinard wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:43 am
ryanw wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:59 am
I was actually referring to traveling with my bike in my Bike Box Alan (see pic).
Hi ryanw,

Thanks for the photo. I don't know anyone who's tried the SystemSix in a BBA. The fork is truly limited to 50 degrees, so if it must go 90 to fit, then obviously it's a no-go.

If it could fit at 0 degrees (straight ahead) or between +/-50 degrees then do you think it could it be a possibility?

Cheers,
Damon
Hi Damon,

I'm actually packing my S5 this week since I'm off getting married in Maui, and of course the bike is coming with me!

I'll check to see if the forks can be askew and if they'll fit, but from memoery, I've tried this before and it was a no go.

It really goes to show how much thought is required when producing these bikes.

Fingers crossed for you guys and all the eventual SuperSix owners, that this can be resolved somehow, since for me, it woud be a deal breaker.

Just thought I'd let you all know that the SystemSix WILL fit in a BBA... Not how I would ideally pack one, but it will fit with the fork at 0 degrees.
I realize this post is 2 years old now but I couldn't find any more recent posts on traveling with a SystemSix in either a BBA or Trico Iron case. The fork at 0 degrees is definitely not ideal for the fork itself, for the frame and headset that are lifted up a bit as you mentioned previously, or for the wheel that get's squeezed on top of that fork. But, nevertheless, is your bike one with fully integrated cabling? Or were you able to move the handlebars out of the way only because you have the external cabling that goes into the downtube?

Buying a SystemSix becomes less attractive it there is a need to also buy a Scicon or other expensive case at the same time.....

by Weenie


Post Reply