New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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kgt
Posts: 8710
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

Cannondale's heritage never dissapoints!
lol
I would get a hambini bb btw. Just don't send him your frame 8)

woodyvalentine
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:40 pm

by woodyvalentine

TriJoeri wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:11 am
After about 1000-1500km, my BB started creaking. I've taken basically everything apart and cleaned and regreased it and so on. Thru axles, bottle cages, pedals, seat post, crank,.. But it always comes back. The sound stops when I stop pedalling, so it must be in the drive line. Checked wheel bearings and replaced them, checked the freehub and so on. It's definitely the BB..

Took it apart again yesterday (after 3500km) to see quite a bit of fretting on the crank axle where both bearings sit. I regreased everything for now but I'm better off buying a (one piece) aftermarket BB and a new crankset soon and replace the whole thing. I bought the bike brand new last September so it's a shame it's worn rather quickly. I guess none of this falls under their warranty?

What would you guys recommend? C-bear is located nearby so I could go for their PF30a-24-R bottom bracket which they clame is creak-free. Or is a BBInfinite/Hambini one piece really the only thing I should be looking at, in combination with whatever crank I want?
I'm in a similar boat. I had a warranty problem with Supersix evo. Got a systemsix replacement. Re-used the Pressfit BB - Sram Pf30A Dub on the new build. It has Aluminum cups so didn't think it'd be the problem. Creaking. Sounded like BB. Got a new one - this time Wheels MFG thread fit. This time trying to get the cranks installed was a pain, it was so tight in the bearings. Preload became useless. Had to position it carefully. Still creaking. Tried more carbon paste in the seatpost. Tried greasing the threads on the seatpost clamp. Tried greasing the derailleur hanger and loctite on small screw. I changed pedals as well for unrelated reasons, those are greased and new. My next guess on my end is cassette. I have force AXS cassette and it's known to be loud. Have Red AXS cassette ordered. Mine only happens while pedalling harder as well.

by Weenie


timmerrr
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:09 pm

by timmerrr

woodyvalentine wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:43 pm
TriJoeri wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:11 am
After about 1000-1500km, my BB started creaking. I've taken basically everything apart and cleaned and regreased it and so on. Thru axles, bottle cages, pedals, seat post, crank,.. But it always comes back. The sound stops when I stop pedalling, so it must be in the drive line. Checked wheel bearings and replaced them, checked the freehub and so on. It's definitely the BB..

Took it apart again yesterday (after 3500km) to see quite a bit of fretting on the crank axle where both bearings sit. I regreased everything for now but I'm better off buying a (one piece) aftermarket BB and a new crankset soon and replace the whole thing. I bought the bike brand new last September so it's a shame it's worn rather quickly. I guess none of this falls under their warranty?

What would you guys recommend? C-bear is located nearby so I could go for their PF30a-24-R bottom bracket which they clame is creak-free. Or is a BBInfinite/Hambini one piece really the only thing I should be looking at, in combination with whatever crank I want?
I'm in a similar boat. I had a warranty problem with Supersix evo. Got a systemsix replacement. Re-used the Pressfit BB - Sram Pf30A Dub on the new build. It has Aluminum cups so didn't think it'd be the problem. Creaking. Sounded like BB. Got a new one - this time Wheels MFG thread fit. This time trying to get the cranks installed was a pain, it was so tight in the bearings. Preload became useless. Had to position it carefully. Still creaking. Tried more carbon paste in the seatpost. Tried greasing the threads on the seatpost clamp. Tried greasing the derailleur hanger and loctite on small screw. I changed pedals as well for unrelated reasons, those are greased and new. My next guess on my end is cassette. I have force AXS cassette and it's known to be loud. Have Red AXS cassette ordered. Mine only happens while pedalling harder as well.
I recently installed a Quarq Dub crankset on my S5. This obviously required a new BB. After about 1500 miles it started creaking. Turns out that the spacers installed on the crank had slightly compressed. This meant that even though I torqued down the crank properly there was some play. The creak produced from this is exactly as you described... may not be the same situation for you but just giving my experience.

woodyvalentine
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:40 pm

by woodyvalentine

timmerrr wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:49 pm
woodyvalentine wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:43 pm
TriJoeri wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:11 am
After about 1000-1500km, my BB started creaking. I've taken basically everything apart and cleaned and regreased it and so on. Thru axles, bottle cages, pedals, seat post, crank,.. But it always comes back. The sound stops when I stop pedalling, so it must be in the drive line. Checked wheel bearings and replaced them, checked the freehub and so on. It's definitely the BB..

Took it apart again yesterday (after 3500km) to see quite a bit of fretting on the crank axle where both bearings sit. I regreased everything for now but I'm better off buying a (one piece) aftermarket BB and a new crankset soon and replace the whole thing. I bought the bike brand new last September so it's a shame it's worn rather quickly. I guess none of this falls under their warranty?

What would you guys recommend? C-bear is located nearby so I could go for their PF30a-24-R bottom bracket which they clame is creak-free. Or is a BBInfinite/Hambini one piece really the only thing I should be looking at, in combination with whatever crank I want?
I'm in a similar boat. I had a warranty problem with Supersix evo. Got a systemsix replacement. Re-used the Pressfit BB - Sram Pf30A Dub on the new build. It has Aluminum cups so didn't think it'd be the problem. Creaking. Sounded like BB. Got a new one - this time Wheels MFG thread fit. This time trying to get the cranks installed was a pain, it was so tight in the bearings. Preload became useless. Had to position it carefully. Still creaking. Tried more carbon paste in the seatpost. Tried greasing the threads on the seatpost clamp. Tried greasing the derailleur hanger and loctite on small screw. I changed pedals as well for unrelated reasons, those are greased and new. My next guess on my end is cassette. I have force AXS cassette and it's known to be loud. Have Red AXS cassette ordered. Mine only happens while pedalling harder as well.
I recently installed a Quarq Dub crankset on my S5. This obviously required a new BB. After about 1500 miles it started creaking. Turns out that the spacers installed on the crank had slightly compressed. This meant that even though I torqued down the crank properly there was some play. The creak produced from this is exactly as you described... may not be the same situation for you but just giving my experience.
I only have a few hundred KM on new BB. I checked it was tight before last nights ride. Still doing it. Will take fully apart on the weekend and see. I think it's cassette still in my case. But WHEELSMFG spacers suck. They are plastic and flimsy. Their BB is solid but then they toss in some crap spacers and call it a day. I don't get why they just wouldn't move the bearings over and out to the actual correct width.

timmerrr
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:09 pm

by timmerrr

woodyvalentine wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:42 pm
I only have a few hundred KM on new BB. I checked it was tight before last nights ride. Still doing it. Will take fully apart on the weekend and see. I think it's cassette still in my case. But WHEELSMFG spacers suck. They are plastic and flimsy. Their BB is solid but then they toss in some crap spacers and call it a day. I don't get why they just wouldn't move the bearings over and out to the actual correct width.
Yup, Could be the same thing, mine seemed tight because I bottomed out the threading. There wasn't enough play for it to be easily noticed by yanking on it in a stand but enough to creak while ridding. If your going to take it apart again, add another spacer on each side and see if it helps. It cant hurt :noidea:

bjarnetv
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:08 pm

by bjarnetv

TriJoeri wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:11 am

Took it apart again yesterday (after 3500km) to see quite a bit of fretting on the crank axle where both bearings sit. I regreased everything for now but I'm better off buying a (one piece) aftermarket BB and a new crankset soon and replace the whole thing. I bought the bike brand new last September so it's a shame it's worn rather quickly. I guess none of this falls under their warranty?

What would you guys recommend?
sound about right - the axle on my caad12 looked like this after only 2,5 months of use.
IMG_4146.jpg
i had it replaced under warranty, so i would contact the bikeshop where you bought it before the warranty runs out.

TriJoeri
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:28 am

by TriJoeri

bjarnetv wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:59 pm
TriJoeri wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:11 am

Took it apart again yesterday (after 3500km) to see quite a bit of fretting on the crank axle where both bearings sit. I regreased everything for now but I'm better off buying a (one piece) aftermarket BB and a new crankset soon and replace the whole thing. I bought the bike brand new last September so it's a shame it's worn rather quickly. I guess none of this falls under their warranty?

What would you guys recommend?
sound about right - the axle on my caad12 looked like this after only 2,5 months of use.
IMG_4146.jpg
i had it replaced under warranty, so i would contact the bikeshop where you bought it before the warranty runs out.
That's exactly what mine looked like! Did they offer to mount a new standard BB and crank or what did they propose?

Thanks all for your input!

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 3648
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

So be cautious of Cannondale is the conscientious?

Finally, WTF, even a CAAD 12 which is a metal frame!?
This shouldn't be a problem.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

eins4eins
Posts: 191
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:49 am

by eins4eins

Ive been using a c-bear bb in my systemsix for 17k km now and its been absolutely flawless. Although its the race version, no problem using it all year round.
Never measured the frame though. Maybe i'm lucky and bb specs are within tolerance.

User avatar
kgt
Posts: 8710
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

wheelsONfire wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:17 am
So be cautious of Cannondale is the conscientious?
Finally, WTF, even a CAAD 12 which is a metal frame!?
This shouldn't be a problem.
If you watch hambini's video of Trek alr you will see that even alu frames' bbs can have serious issues.

User avatar
Spinnekop
Posts: 203
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:03 pm
Location: South Africa

by Spinnekop

Just on a side note on the creaking.........
I once had a creaking on my 'Dale. Went through the motions.......BB, spider, dropout, cassette, etc.etc.etc.
Turned out the SISL crank arm was the culprit. (Switched cranks for a ride and got complete silence) Something in crank arm was making the noise. Replaced the one arm and never had any issues again on that bike.
"In my experience, there is only one motivation, and that is DESIRE.
No reason or principle contain it or stand against it........"

bjarnetv
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:08 pm

by bjarnetv

TriJoeri wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:59 am

That's exactly what mine looked like! Did they offer to mount a new standard BB and crank or what did they propose?

Thanks all for your input!
They reluctantly changed the axle and the bearings, but they probably left the axle as is if i hadnt told them the amount of wear was unacceptable.
They did manage to bodge the bearing install though, so it came back with gritty bearings - had to fight them a bit to have the bearings replaced once more.
hopefully your bikeshop is more competent :roll:

The problem with these cranks/BBs is that steel bearings on an aluminium axle is a bad idea in general.
Even with perfect bearings, the occasional under-rotation will eat away the alu bit by bit until its no longer a tight fit, and it will start clicking when it slips.

in the end, i sold the bike after loosing confidence in the cranks, and i couldn't find a good way to convert the BB30a BB to fit a shimano crank without interfering with the cable guide.

the systemsix BB is probably a bit different from the CAAD12 BB, so if its possible to fit a good 24mm shimano conversion kit on it i know what i would do ;)

woodyvalentine
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:40 pm

by woodyvalentine

I gave mine a go again last night. Took cranks out. Much easier this time. Re-tightened the wheels MFG thread fit a small bit. Reinstalled cranks much easier this time. Bearing preload actually can function now. I have ALL the spacers from the Wheels MFG kit installed. when it was the Sram version I only needed 3MM on drive side. Now I have 1.5Mm on nondrive and 4.5mm on drive. Their manual isn't clear. I sent an email to them with no reply. Anyway, creaking still happening. Cassette in the mail. Hope it's this. I will also try reinstalling the chainrings - Sram dub quarq 1 piece 2X PM.

TriJoeri
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:28 am

by TriJoeri

bjarnetv wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:45 am
TriJoeri wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:59 am

That's exactly what mine looked like! Did they offer to mount a new standard BB and crank or what did they propose?

Thanks all for your input!
They reluctantly changed the axle and the bearings, but they probably left the axle as is if i hadnt told them the amount of wear was unacceptable.
They did manage to bodge the bearing install though, so it came back with gritty bearings - had to fight them a bit to have the bearings replaced once more.
hopefully your bikeshop is more competent :roll:

The problem with these cranks/BBs is that steel bearings on an aluminium axle is a bad idea in general.
Even with perfect bearings, the occasional under-rotation will eat away the alu bit by bit until its no longer a tight fit, and it will start clicking when it slips.

in the end, i sold the bike after loosing confidence in the cranks, and i couldn't find a good way to convert the BB30a BB to fit a shimano crank without interfering with the cable guide.

the systemsix BB is probably a bit different from the CAAD12 BB, so if its possible to fit a good 24mm shimano conversion kit on it i know what i would do ;)
Pitty that caused you to sell the bike!

I'm looking into the BBInfinite PF30a to Shimano 24mm bottom bracket, still doubting if their Ceramitec option is worth it over the regular ABEC-7 (steel) option for the price difference of 55 dollar. Should go nicely with an Ultegra R8000 crank I guess.

woodyvalentine
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:40 pm

by woodyvalentine

Was cassette. But - haven't even got new one in mail. Took the Force off and cleaned XDR Freehub threads and body. Slapped a load of grease on it. All good. I guess the amount of grease on the threads wasn't enough before. Still hate the Force cassette - the black wears off. Will toss it on a trainer eventually. Ridiculous prices for the AXS cassettes.

by Weenie


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