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Re: New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:49 pm
by refthimos
tommyg76 wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:32 pm
Hi-Mod DA - 56
Ouch, that's the one I've had on order since July and it's not expected until October 27.

Re: New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:49 pm
by Weenie

Re: New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:43 pm
by DamonRinard
CAAD8FRED wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:49 pm
Hey Damon
A little unrelated to the SystemSix

In most independent tests the Scott Foil is right with the Venge and Madone, what happened in your wind tunnel tests that caused it to slip so low?

Rob
Hi Rob,

Link to tests? Historically, I've always seen the Foil to be a "medium" bike: medium weight, medium stiffness, medium comfort... medium aero performance.

That said, we tested it as delivered, so the data represents the performance a rider gets when they buy the bike.

Not sure if the spec is the same between tests. For example, at launch a much-anticipated aero bike was speced with narrow tires, then the next one we bought came with wider tires. Okay, wide tires have their benefits, but our test showed a significant increase in drag. That's one reason we designed the Knot64 wheels, their drag is less sensitive to tire width: the 25C GP4000 s II we shipped with the first batch have virtually the same drag as the 23C tires.

For another example, although we gave up some aero performance on the SystemSix's least expensive version with the lower profile rims (hard to get such a nice price with carbon wheels), we still chose the excellent Vision 4D drop bar because its aero drag was nearly the same as the Knot System Bar. We try to give the rider as much performance as possible, even for the low price.

It's sometimes the small differences that can make the difference.

Cheers,
Damon

Re: New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:10 pm
by CAAD8FRED
DamonRinard wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:43 pm
CAAD8FRED wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:49 pm
Hey Damon
A little unrelated to the SystemSix

In most independent tests the Scott Foil is right with the Venge and Madone, what happened in your wind tunnel tests that caused it to slip so low?

Rob
Hi Rob,

Link to tests? Historically, I've always seen the Foil to be a "medium" bike: medium weight, medium stiffness, medium comfort... medium aero performance.

That said, we tested it as delivered, so the data represents the performance a rider gets when they buy the bike.

Not sure if the spec is the same between tests. For example, at launch a much-anticipated aero bike was speced with narrow tires, then the next one we bought came with wider tires. Okay, wide tires have their benefits, but our test showed a significant increase in drag. That's one reason we designed the Knot64 wheels, their drag is less sensitive to tire width: the 25C GP4000 s II we shipped with the first batch have virtually the same drag as the 23C tires.

For another example, although we gave up some aero performance on the SystemSix's least expensive version with the lower profile rims (hard to get such a nice price with carbon wheels), we still chose the excellent Vision 4D drop bar because its aero drag was nearly the same as the Knot System Bar. We try to give the rider as much performance as possible, even for the low price.

It's sometimes the small differences that can make the difference.

Cheers,
Damon
Cycling Weekly put it behind the Madone and ViAS, Tour put in front of the Dogma and only one watt behind the Propel.
I know it isn't outstanding on the aero, but I thought it was better than what your results said.

Thanks

Re: New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:43 pm
by Jugi
Phil Gaimon does sience.


Re: New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:02 am
by Enda Marron
Has the Super Slice been officially released yet - Uran rode one today at Vuelta... and even better it did had rim brakes.
Will Cannondale provide customers with a rim brake and disc brake choice (like Trek do)?

Re: New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:38 am
by DamonRinard
Enda Marron wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:02 am
Has the Super Slice been officially released yet - Uran rode one today at Vuelta... and even better it did had rim brakes.
Will Cannondale provide customers with a rim brake and disc brake choice (like Trek do)?
Hi Enda,

Yes, the SuperSlice has launched! You can see it on the cannondale.com web page. Here's the US site, could be different in different parts of the world:
https://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Produ ... 45323d6faa

We expect to ship the first bikes to Cannondale distributors very soon.

We made a few rim brake versions for the EF-Drapac p/b Cannondale team only. Unfortunately, our wind tunnel testing showed it had the same drag as the disc brake version, and the bikes weighed the same as well. So the rim brake version will not be for sale. Only the disc brake version will be made in small quantity production.

Cheers,
Damon

Re: New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:51 am
by kgt
Certainly no one need discs during a tt...

Re: New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:00 am
by wingguy
DamonRinard wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:38 am
Hi Enda,

Yes, the SuperSlice has launched! You can see it on the cannondale.com web page. Here's the US site, could be different in different parts of the world:
https://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Produ ... 45323d6faa
And will the Knot wheels fit the bike?

Re: New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:10 am
by robeambro
Jugi wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:43 pm
Phil Gaimon does sience.

You should have said "science" with quotes. What he's done is nowhere near scientific.
I admire people who go out and do things to help, but to call it science is near blasphemy.

Re: New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:31 am
by DamonRinard
wingguy wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:00 am
DamonRinard wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:38 am
Hi Enda,

Yes, the SuperSlice has launched! You can see it on the cannondale.com web page. Here's the US site, could be different in different parts of the world:
https://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Produ ... 45323d6faa
And will the Knot wheels fit the bike?
Yes, we've been riding it with different wheels including the Hollowgram Knot64s, which work great in the SuperSlice.

We specced the Visions because when EF-Drapac p/b Cannondale asked us to advise them about potential wheels sponsors, we did a wind tunnel shootout and the Visions won. (At the time, the Knot 64 wheels didn't exist). The Knots are less sensitive to wider tires, but they're not yet available separately - they're all booked for assembly onto SystemSix bikes at the moment.

Cheers,
Damon

Re: New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:53 am
by C36
Jugi wrote:Phil Gaimon does sience.

Boy... for a pro who trained for years with a Power meter how can he claim his rides are “the same” when the average watt are so different?
Appreciate the will to test but 15 yrs ago we were doing better (ok without YouTube)


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

Re: New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:59 pm
by bikesrdangerousmmk
The dealers in my area are saying no bikes until end of October/November. Ouch

Re: New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:05 am
by chiumomo
DamonRinard wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:38 am
Enda Marron wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:02 am
Has the Super Slice been officially released yet - Uran rode one today at Vuelta... and even better it did had rim brakes.
Will Cannondale provide customers with a rim brake and disc brake choice (like Trek do)?
Hi Enda,

Yes, the SuperSlice has launched! You can see it on the cannondale.com web page. Here's the US site, could be different in different parts of the world:
https://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Produ ... 45323d6faa

We expect to ship the first bikes to Cannondale distributors very soon.

We made a few rim brake versions for the EF-Drapac p/b Cannondale team only. Unfortunately, our wind tunnel testing showed it had the same drag as the disc brake version, and the bikes weighed the same as well. So the rim brake version will not be for sale. Only the disc brake version will be made in small quantity production.

Cheers,
Damon


That's interesting, so the sole purpose of the new model is to make everything currently we have incompatible?

Re: New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:30 am
by mrlobber
Cannondale does look a little weird for 2019... either it's all-in on Systemsix with the thought that this is going to be the bulk of all sales, or something else, I don't know.
In SS Evo, you see only 2 Disc models, and both Ultegra, neither Di2 nor Etap HRD, while a ton of rim brake models remain, which is nice, of course, but leaves you head scracthing how the model lines are going to be developed / maintained in the future (especially mentioning the Superslice disc-only approach).

Damon, are we in for an upgrade on SS Evo in 2019? ;)

Re: New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:45 am
by kgt
Svetty wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:50 pm
kgt wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:51 am
Certainly no one need discs during a tt...
More bo***cks from kgt :roll: :roll:
:?:
DamonRinard wrote: We made a few rim brake versions for the EF-Drapac p/b Cannondale team only.

Re: New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:45 am
by Weenie