New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
refthimos
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm

by refthimos

tommyg76 wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:32 pm
Hi-Mod DA - 56
Ouch, that's the one I've had on order since July and it's not expected until October 27.
EVO | 5.38kg
SystemSix | On order
TCR Advanced SL Disc | Build in process
P5 | 9070 Di2 | SISL2 P2Max NG | Enve 7.8 | Alto Disc
T1 | P2Max Type S | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc

DamonRinard
in the industry
Posts: 347
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

by DamonRinard

CAAD8FRED wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:49 pm
Hey Damon
A little unrelated to the SystemSix

In most independent tests the Scott Foil is right with the Venge and Madone, what happened in your wind tunnel tests that caused it to slip so low?

Rob
Hi Rob,

Link to tests? Historically, I've always seen the Foil to be a "medium" bike: medium weight, medium stiffness, medium comfort... medium aero performance.

That said, we tested it as delivered, so the data represents the performance a rider gets when they buy the bike.

Not sure if the spec is the same between tests. For example, at launch a much-anticipated aero bike was speced with narrow tires, then the next one we bought came with wider tires. Okay, wide tires have their benefits, but our test showed a significant increase in drag. That's one reason we designed the Knot64 wheels, their drag is less sensitive to tire width: the 25C GP4000 s II we shipped with the first batch have virtually the same drag as the 23C tires.

For another example, although we gave up some aero performance on the SystemSix's least expensive version with the lower profile rims (hard to get such a nice price with carbon wheels), we still chose the excellent Vision 4D drop bar because its aero drag was nearly the same as the Knot System Bar. We try to give the rider as much performance as possible, even for the low price.

It's sometimes the small differences that can make the difference.

Cheers,
Damon
Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager, Road Bikes
Cycling Sports Group, Cannondale
Ex-Kestrel, ex-Velomax, ex-Trek, ex-Cervelo

by Weenie


CAAD8FRED
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:52 pm

by CAAD8FRED

DamonRinard wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:43 pm
CAAD8FRED wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:49 pm
Hey Damon
A little unrelated to the SystemSix

In most independent tests the Scott Foil is right with the Venge and Madone, what happened in your wind tunnel tests that caused it to slip so low?

Rob
Hi Rob,

Link to tests? Historically, I've always seen the Foil to be a "medium" bike: medium weight, medium stiffness, medium comfort... medium aero performance.

That said, we tested it as delivered, so the data represents the performance a rider gets when they buy the bike.

Not sure if the spec is the same between tests. For example, at launch a much-anticipated aero bike was speced with narrow tires, then the next one we bought came with wider tires. Okay, wide tires have their benefits, but our test showed a significant increase in drag. That's one reason we designed the Knot64 wheels, their drag is less sensitive to tire width: the 25C GP4000 s II we shipped with the first batch have virtually the same drag as the 23C tires.

For another example, although we gave up some aero performance on the SystemSix's least expensive version with the lower profile rims (hard to get such a nice price with carbon wheels), we still chose the excellent Vision 4D drop bar because its aero drag was nearly the same as the Knot System Bar. We try to give the rider as much performance as possible, even for the low price.

It's sometimes the small differences that can make the difference.

Cheers,
Damon
Cycling Weekly put it behind the Madone and ViAS, Tour put in front of the Dogma and only one watt behind the Propel.
I know it isn't outstanding on the aero, but I thought it was better than what your results said.

Thanks

Jugi
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:10 am

by Jugi

Phil Gaimon does sience.


Enda Marron
Posts: 351
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 6:03 pm
Location: Belfast

by Enda Marron

Has the Super Slice been officially released yet - Uran rode one today at Vuelta... and even better it did had rim brakes.
Will Cannondale provide customers with a rim brake and disc brake choice (like Trek do)?

DamonRinard
in the industry
Posts: 347
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

by DamonRinard

Enda Marron wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:02 am
Has the Super Slice been officially released yet - Uran rode one today at Vuelta... and even better it did had rim brakes.
Will Cannondale provide customers with a rim brake and disc brake choice (like Trek do)?
Hi Enda,

Yes, the SuperSlice has launched! You can see it on the cannondale.com web page. Here's the US site, could be different in different parts of the world:
https://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Produ ... 45323d6faa

We expect to ship the first bikes to Cannondale distributors very soon.

We made a few rim brake versions for the EF-Drapac p/b Cannondale team only. Unfortunately, our wind tunnel testing showed it had the same drag as the disc brake version, and the bikes weighed the same as well. So the rim brake version will not be for sale. Only the disc brake version will be made in small quantity production.

Cheers,
Damon
Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager, Road Bikes
Cycling Sports Group, Cannondale
Ex-Kestrel, ex-Velomax, ex-Trek, ex-Cervelo

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kgt
Posts: 6992
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

Certainly no one need discs during a tt...

wingguy
Posts: 4198
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

DamonRinard wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:38 am
Hi Enda,

Yes, the SuperSlice has launched! You can see it on the cannondale.com web page. Here's the US site, could be different in different parts of the world:
https://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Produ ... 45323d6faa
And will the Knot wheels fit the bike?

robeambro
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

Jugi wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:43 pm
Phil Gaimon does sience.

You should have said "science" with quotes. What he's done is nowhere near scientific.
I admire people who go out and do things to help, but to call it science is near blasphemy.

DamonRinard
in the industry
Posts: 347
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

by DamonRinard

wingguy wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:00 am
DamonRinard wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:38 am
Hi Enda,

Yes, the SuperSlice has launched! You can see it on the cannondale.com web page. Here's the US site, could be different in different parts of the world:
https://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Produ ... 45323d6faa
And will the Knot wheels fit the bike?
Yes, we've been riding it with different wheels including the Hollowgram Knot64s, which work great in the SuperSlice.

We specced the Visions because when EF-Drapac p/b Cannondale asked us to advise them about potential wheels sponsors, we did a wind tunnel shootout and the Visions won. (At the time, the Knot 64 wheels didn't exist). The Knots are less sensitive to wider tires, but they're not yet available separately - they're all booked for assembly onto SystemSix bikes at the moment.

Cheers,
Damon
Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager, Road Bikes
Cycling Sports Group, Cannondale
Ex-Kestrel, ex-Velomax, ex-Trek, ex-Cervelo

C36
Posts: 359
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

Jugi wrote:Phil Gaimon does sience.

Boy... for a pro who trained for years with a Power meter how can he claim his rides are “the same” when the average watt are so different?
Appreciate the will to test but 15 yrs ago we were doing better (ok without YouTube)


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

bikesrdangerousmmk
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:54 am

by bikesrdangerousmmk

The dealers in my area are saying no bikes until end of October/November. Ouch

chiumomo
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 1:38 pm

by chiumomo

DamonRinard wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:38 am
Enda Marron wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:02 am
Has the Super Slice been officially released yet - Uran rode one today at Vuelta... and even better it did had rim brakes.
Will Cannondale provide customers with a rim brake and disc brake choice (like Trek do)?
Hi Enda,

Yes, the SuperSlice has launched! You can see it on the cannondale.com web page. Here's the US site, could be different in different parts of the world:
https://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Produ ... 45323d6faa

We expect to ship the first bikes to Cannondale distributors very soon.

We made a few rim brake versions for the EF-Drapac p/b Cannondale team only. Unfortunately, our wind tunnel testing showed it had the same drag as the disc brake version, and the bikes weighed the same as well. So the rim brake version will not be for sale. Only the disc brake version will be made in small quantity production.

Cheers,
Damon


That's interesting, so the sole purpose of the new model is to make everything currently we have incompatible?

mrlobber
Posts: 791
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:36 am
Location: Where the permanent autumn is

by mrlobber

Cannondale does look a little weird for 2019... either it's all-in on Systemsix with the thought that this is going to be the bulk of all sales, or something else, I don't know.
In SS Evo, you see only 2 Disc models, and both Ultegra, neither Di2 nor Etap HRD, while a ton of rim brake models remain, which is nice, of course, but leaves you head scracthing how the model lines are going to be developed / maintained in the future (especially mentioning the Superslice disc-only approach).

Damon, are we in for an upgrade on SS Evo in 2019? ;)
Retired bikes: Cervelo S5 2015 / Felt AR FRD 2014 / Cannondale SS HM 2014 / Scott Addict SL 2014 / Scott Plasma Premium 2014 / Orbea Orca 2008 / Look 596 /

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kgt
Posts: 6992
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

Svetty wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:50 pm
kgt wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:51 am
Certainly no one need discs during a tt...
More bo***cks from kgt :roll: :roll:
:?:
DamonRinard wrote: We made a few rim brake versions for the EF-Drapac p/b Cannondale team only.

by Weenie


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