New cannondale SYSTEMSIX road frame!

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Calnago
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by Calnago

@Gwilson: B-screw would most likely need a tweak as well, so maybe it’s just the camera angle but it sure looks like the derailleur is rotated back and up from where it would be if the derailleur tab on the backside was up against the hanger tab, but maybe it’s just camera angle. Look at these two pics.... yours...
Image

Now this... do you see a difference?... or is it just camera angle. Look at the relationship between the two silver pivot points on the B-link.
Image

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by Weenie


ryanw
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Location: London

by ryanw

Top pic is wrong 100%.
'16 Cervelo S5 - 6650g
'17 Focus Mares Force 1 - 7,800g

mag
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Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

A little OT question for @DamonRinard:
Last year when the new Synapse was introduced in July, certain models were supposed to come with the SAVE SystemBar solution (integrated handlebar & stem). However this didn't happen in the end and it was (sort of silently) replaced with the ENVE handlebar & stem. Someone from Cannondale then explained somewhere that this was due to certain manufacturing issues. No problem, that happens. However it seems that even the MY2019 Synapses aren't going to get this SAVE SystemBar. Has this project been put on hold or are you still working on it?

DamonRinard
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Location: Connecticut, USA

by DamonRinard

Hi mag,

We found a simple, reliable solution to the issue with the SAVE bar, but too late to catch the Synapse train. We used lessons learned there to make the SystemSix's successful Knot aero drop bar, and now we're making SAVE bars for whatever model the product manager wants to refresh next. :-)

Cheers,
Damon
Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager, Road Bikes
Cycling Sports Group, Cannondale
Ex-Kestrel, ex-Velomax, ex-Trek, ex-Cervelo

smolderingremains
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Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:17 pm

by smolderingremains

Hi Damon,

Thanks for posting. I just bought a sytem six hi mod, ultegra version. I wanted to swap out the entire group set to SRAM red etap with a quarq. However, the shop could not get the crank set to fit. Do you know if there is any way to get this to work? They said the red cranks bent in a little and would rub against the frame. They actually put it on and then took it back off.

Also, the Knot64s seem like they are awsome wheels and a lot of thought went into the design. That said, do you if there would be any performance benefit (areo-only) to a deeper wheelset, like Enve 5.6 or 7.8.? Or will there be more benefit from keepign the entire "system" together.

Any thoughts woudl be great.

DamonRinard
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by DamonRinard

Hi smoldering,

SRAM eTap should be sweet on your SystemSix, nice upgrade!

I have an older SRAM crank with Quarq on my SystemSix. No issues installing it in my case. I don't think the newer ones are significantly different in the BB dimensions. I'm assuming the 30mm diameter spindle, not GXP.

It should fit, because the SystemSix bottom bracket standard is PF30A, which means the right side is identical to PF30 (and from the crank's perspective, BB30 too), and the left side is just 5mm wider. (The "A" stands for asymmetric, that's the 5mm.) Installing a Quarq, you just leave off the optional 5mm spacer from the left side, then assemble as normal. In no case should the cranks be hitting the frame: the chainstays are designed to clear all normal road cranks, typically Dura-Ace is the narrowest, but we include many other cranks, including SRAM, in our clearance assembly as well.

If you can get more details from the mechanic, I might be able to help further, or just ask the shop call our Customer Support folks.

For your second question: The Knot64 wheels are about 2 Watts faster (at 40 km/h) than the ENVE 4.5 (rim brake) wheels we tested (both with the same GP4000sII 25C tires). You can see the data in the white paper, figures 21 and 22. For the deeper ENVEs to be faster, you'd want the disc brake version to be at least 2 Watts less drag than their 4.5 rim brake version we tested. Maybe they have this data?

Wheels in this class (spoked mid-to-deep rimmed wheels) usually rank similarly whether tested alone or in the bike. The SystemSix is insensitive to small differences in wheel design. There's not a lot of negative interaction, at least not with the SystemSix. (Other designs of frames/forks/wheels could be more sensitive, thus potentially have a greater effect.)

Cheers,
Damon
Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager, Road Bikes
Cycling Sports Group, Cannondale
Ex-Kestrel, ex-Velomax, ex-Trek, ex-Cervelo

RussellS
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:31 am

by RussellS

I've been watching the first 4-5 stages of the Vuelta. The pink team riding Cannondale has only been using SuperSix bikes with rim brakes. No SystemSix bikes with disc brakes that I have seen on TV. I know the first few days of the Vuelta have had some climbing and mountain top finishes. But all the talk in this thread has been about how faster the aero SystemSix is unless you are going up a cliff.

ScottinFL
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:53 pm

by ScottinFL

^^^ Very interesting observation. There are the massive marketing machines of the big MFG's and then there are the realities that are confirmed from inherently credible alternative sources. This observation is certainly not the "be all, end all", but it is a reliable data point for sure.

spartan
Posts: 1187
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:52 am

by spartan

with affordable real time aero tools coming to market we will see who is right.

https://notiokonect.com/en/product

btw @Damon can you please comment on Hambini aero test results.

https://www.hambini.com/blog/post/bicyc ... s-fastest/

we need to see how knot wheels test in more realistic 30km/hr test.
Current Rides:

2017 Giant TCR Advanced SL 0 DI2 9150

hannawald
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by hannawald

RussellS wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:33 am
I've been watching the first 4-5 stages of the Vuelta. The pink team riding Cannondale has only been using SuperSix bikes with rim brakes. No SystemSix bikes with disc brakes that I have seen on TV. I know the first few days of the Vuelta have had some climbing and mountain top finishes. But all the talk in this thread has been about how faster the aero SystemSix is unless you are going up a cliff.
This will be interesting to watch, not only SystemSix, but also Venge and disc vs rim..for example racers quite use Oltre, even though there is lighter Specialissima, but maybe with rim brakes the weight penalty is negligible, while aero and disc combination is too heavy and not comfortable? Or the support cars are not ready yet? Racing is also very different from riding alone..if you think you will be hidden in a bunch of others for the whole day, you may not need aero, just the lightest possible for the final climb.

DamonRinard
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by DamonRinard

RussellS wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:33 am
I've been watching the first 4-5 stages of the Vuelta. The pink team riding Cannondale has only been using SuperSix bikes with rim brakes. No SystemSix bikes with disc brakes that I have seen on TV. I know the first few days of the Vuelta have had some climbing and mountain top finishes. But all the talk in this thread has been about how faster the aero SystemSix is unless you are going up a cliff.
Hi Russel,

We noticed that, too. Today we are on the way to a meeting to discuss science with the team.

Many of the pro racers I've known are really not that different from other young riders (except they can pedal harder). They're also subject to their past beliefs and the pressure of the crowd. We'll continue to educate them and see how seriously they take their jobs.

Cheers,
Damon
Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager, Road Bikes
Cycling Sports Group, Cannondale
Ex-Kestrel, ex-Velomax, ex-Trek, ex-Cervelo

DamonRinard
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Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

by DamonRinard

spartan wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:21 am
btw @Damon can you please comment on Hambini aero test results.

https://www.hambini.com/blog/post/bicyc ... s-fastest/
Hi spartan,

So far I've refrained from commenting on hambini's thread, for several reasons:

- First, it's his thread, and as a courtesy I don't like to crash another bike company's threads.

- Second, I haven't seen enough about the test protocol to intelligently interpret the results. No set-up photos, no rider coordinates, no yaw schedule, no drag-yaw data, no explanation of how he averaged the numbers, etc. Maybe I've missed it?

- Third, we've observed highly unstable drag readings around a rider with hands on the hoods. The variability is great enough we don't rely on testing in the hoods for component data (sometimes for rider positioning). The instability seems to be a genuine aero effect, not a measurement effect. So for measuring component drag we use wheel-alone, bike-alone or other more aerodynamically-stable rider positions.

- Fourth, from what I've read, the test method seems new enough I'm cautious of drawing too many conclusions from any test results until the method is more thoroughly validated.

Cheers,
Damon
Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager, Road Bikes
Cycling Sports Group, Cannondale
Ex-Kestrel, ex-Velomax, ex-Trek, ex-Cervelo

DamonRinard
in the industry
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Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

by DamonRinard

Hi hannawald,

Exactly, there are many potential reasons to choose one bike over the other.

Another reason is simply the momentum of the familiar: When we introduced the new EVO to the team, they told us they hated it and often preferred to ride the old bike. Same with the SuperSlice. Every new bike we introduce, some riders prefer the old bike. Now, the new EVO is the old bike, and the same mentality seems to be there for some riders.
...if you think you will be hidden in a bunch of others for the whole day, you may not need aero, just the lightest possible for the final climb.
Exactly. This is the rider for whom we recommend the climbing bike over the SystemSix.

Cheers,
Damon
Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager, Road Bikes
Cycling Sports Group, Cannondale
Ex-Kestrel, ex-Velomax, ex-Trek, ex-Cervelo

tommyg76
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:33 pm

by tommyg76

I am interested in purchasing a SystemSix Hi-Mod Dura Ace, I rang a few dealers today and was told that I would have to wait until February of next year! This seems like really bad supply chain management given that the bike launched last month, has demand really been that high? I'd be interested to know if other people on this forum have been told similar? If true, then it looks like my money will be going elsewhere....sorry Cannondale

by Weenie


CAAD8FRED
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:52 pm

by CAAD8FRED

tommyg76 wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:58 pm
I am interested in purchasing a SystemSix Hi-Mod Dura Ace, I rang a few dealers today and was told that I would have to wait until February of next year! This seems like really bad supply chain management given that the bike launched last month, has demand really been that high? I'd be interested to know if other people on this forum have been told similar? If true, then it looks like my money will be going elsewhere....sorry Cannondale
One major shop in my area has it, however, a minor shop that's a little closer to me doesn't.

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